Hi everyone,
I’m new here, and new to serious cycling really too. Due to a recent seizure unfortunately my drivers license has been revoked for the minimum of a year. I currently work around 15 miles from my house, and whilst there is a train that will take me roughly 5 miles from work I’d also like the option to cycle the entire journey if the train times are unfavourable, as the majority of my friends and family are near my work too (I realise moving closer would be ideal, but my gf doesn’t drive either and her hours mean public transport isn’t an option).
So basically my question is what is the better option for me? Should I go electric or for the sort of money I’d need would it be better to get a really efficient non electric bike? I’ll have quite a reasonable budget of up to £2500. The stretch of train journey is classed as off peak at the times I’d want to use it, but taking a full sized bike on it isn’t guaranteed if busy. I’m guessing a 15 mike journey on a folding bike would be quite a miserable affair.
There is a reasonable sized hill even on the 5 mile journey from the train station which is why I’m thinking of going electric, but the thought of riding a 20kg+ bike with a flat battery is pretty daunting. Also the speed limit of an electric bike is a little off putting when non electric bikes can easily exceed that. Does anyone have experience with electric bikes, how easy is it to maintain speeds higher than the 15.5mph limit? It’s looking like two or even three bikes to suit each situation would be best, but cost and space won’t allow it.
Anyway I’m rambling on. As you can imagine, I’m feeling pretty low at the minute and I realise my life will be much less convenient going forward, so any help or advice that anyone can offer to make things as easy as possible will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Ryan
Electric vs high quality pedal
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
First up... How much do you already cycle?
How much do you need to carry?
How much is the train on a one off basis?
I commute 15 miles each way, by both electric and non electric bike (well, the trike is electric, the bike isn't).
In terms of speed - the un assisted bike is faster, but it's a completely different animal to the trike.
You will be commuting for a whole year by non-car, so you need to be able to cope with whatever weather is thrown your way. An out and out race bike is almost certainly not what you want.
There is an e-bike forum section on here, where we discuss things like speed limits on EAPCs (electrically assisted pedal cycles, which is what you are looking at). I average well over 15mph on mine (because it's only the assistance that's limited, not the speed).
The major advantage is that I get a fair boost when going uphill, so that section is a) faster and b) less time than it would otherwise be - that's a double bonus for the average speed. It also means that the uphill doesn't tire me in the same way.
I got a 36V10Ah battery, which is overkill for my commute.
How much do you need to carry?
How much is the train on a one off basis?
I commute 15 miles each way, by both electric and non electric bike (well, the trike is electric, the bike isn't).
In terms of speed - the un assisted bike is faster, but it's a completely different animal to the trike.
You will be commuting for a whole year by non-car, so you need to be able to cope with whatever weather is thrown your way. An out and out race bike is almost certainly not what you want.
There is an e-bike forum section on here, where we discuss things like speed limits on EAPCs (electrically assisted pedal cycles, which is what you are looking at). I average well over 15mph on mine (because it's only the assistance that's limited, not the speed).
The major advantage is that I get a fair boost when going uphill, so that section is a) faster and b) less time than it would otherwise be - that's a double bonus for the average speed. It also means that the uphill doesn't tire me in the same way.
I got a 36V10Ah battery, which is overkill for my commute.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
Really sorry about your setback, Ryan.
But sometimes a setback can be an opportunity to do something positive.
How fit are you? Is 15 miles a long way for you? Is the 15 mile route pleasant?
I don't have an electric bike but if I needed one I would get one. I have a feeling it may be a help for you, in your situation. And you can turn it into a positive by keeping the electric assistance low and doing a lot of the work with your legs. You may end up in better shape!
But sometimes a setback can be an opportunity to do something positive.
How fit are you? Is 15 miles a long way for you? Is the 15 mile route pleasant?
I don't have an electric bike but if I needed one I would get one. I have a feeling it may be a help for you, in your situation. And you can turn it into a positive by keeping the electric assistance low and doing a lot of the work with your legs. You may end up in better shape!
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
A lot of the answer will come down to how much cycling do you do at the moment. 15 miles twice a day is no problem to some people but would be a pretty major issue for a lot more.
There are folders and Folders. Premium ones well within your budget are quite capable of distances and often speeds on a par with "normal" bikes. Birdys and Airnimals and the hotter Dahons can be very capable machines, for example.
The speed limit on an electric isn't a speed limit, it's a limit beyond which the motor won't help you. So as long as you're up to providing the power for faster, you can go faster.
The new Electric Brompton might be a good match as a Brom rides pretty well and folds small enough that it's a package rather than a bike as far as the trains are concerned. The battery mounts on the luggage block so is easily separated for carry and the bike itself is easy to carry around or wheel when folded, at least for short distances. They say the battery is good for 25-50 miles depending on conditions, so let's say 25, and as long as you have access to a plug at work you can recharge there.
Pete.
There are folders and Folders. Premium ones well within your budget are quite capable of distances and often speeds on a par with "normal" bikes. Birdys and Airnimals and the hotter Dahons can be very capable machines, for example.
The speed limit on an electric isn't a speed limit, it's a limit beyond which the motor won't help you. So as long as you're up to providing the power for faster, you can go faster.
The new Electric Brompton might be a good match as a Brom rides pretty well and folds small enough that it's a package rather than a bike as far as the trains are concerned. The battery mounts on the luggage block so is easily separated for carry and the bike itself is easy to carry around or wheel when folded, at least for short distances. They say the battery is good for 25-50 miles depending on conditions, so let's say 25, and as long as you have access to a plug at work you can recharge there.
Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
Welcome to the forum.
I think it depends largely on how keen you are to cycle. Do you have a bike now? If so, start using it. It will help you figure out what you need. Or borrow a bike, if you know someone who is near enough in size.
Your budget might be able to manage both a standard pedal bike and an electric assist bike, if you shop carefully. Something like the Gazelle CityZen and a Carrera or Decathlon hybrid, or a somewhat better used bike.
A folding bike doesn't have to be an awful way to travel. The most important thing of any bike is that it needs to be sized and set up correctly. It might be reasonable to buy an electric bike for the non-train commute and a folder for the train commute.
You might also consider a folding electric bike. I borrowed one from a friend a couple of years ago, and was reasonably comfortable on a roughly 10 mile ride. I was pleasantly surprised with the bike.
I recommend going to some shops and trying some bikes. Don't buy anything until you've ridden various bikes and given some thought to purchase criteria. If you think you like something take it for a proper ride (not just a couple of times around the car park).
As for the commute, just starting off tomorrow to ride everyday is likely to be extremely tiring. Some people can manage it with extra food and sleep. Other people need to build up gradually, or have rest days between commute days. You could start by taking the train most days and riding your bike the whole way every 4th working day, or something, and gradually increase it.
If you haven't ridden at all recently, try it the first time on a non-working day. Use something like https://www.cyclestreets.net/ or http://cycle.travel/map to plan your route. Other considerations...
What is bike parking like at your work? Is it secure?
Do you need a lock?
Is there a place to plug in an electric bike? Can you also lock your bike there? Or will you need to buy an extra charger to keep at work?
Do you have showers? Someplace to dry wet stuff? Can you keep a change of clothes at work? Or take clothes and toiletries on the days you take the train, so you don't have to on the days you ride 15 miles?
If you are going to carry things with you everyday, it's best to do so in panniers, or another bag on the bike. A rucksack is feasible, but it is much easier to carry stuff on your bike than your body.
Good luck figuring it all out. Don't be shy about coming back on here and asking more questions.
I think it depends largely on how keen you are to cycle. Do you have a bike now? If so, start using it. It will help you figure out what you need. Or borrow a bike, if you know someone who is near enough in size.
Your budget might be able to manage both a standard pedal bike and an electric assist bike, if you shop carefully. Something like the Gazelle CityZen and a Carrera or Decathlon hybrid, or a somewhat better used bike.
A folding bike doesn't have to be an awful way to travel. The most important thing of any bike is that it needs to be sized and set up correctly. It might be reasonable to buy an electric bike for the non-train commute and a folder for the train commute.
You might also consider a folding electric bike. I borrowed one from a friend a couple of years ago, and was reasonably comfortable on a roughly 10 mile ride. I was pleasantly surprised with the bike.
I recommend going to some shops and trying some bikes. Don't buy anything until you've ridden various bikes and given some thought to purchase criteria. If you think you like something take it for a proper ride (not just a couple of times around the car park).
As for the commute, just starting off tomorrow to ride everyday is likely to be extremely tiring. Some people can manage it with extra food and sleep. Other people need to build up gradually, or have rest days between commute days. You could start by taking the train most days and riding your bike the whole way every 4th working day, or something, and gradually increase it.
If you haven't ridden at all recently, try it the first time on a non-working day. Use something like https://www.cyclestreets.net/ or http://cycle.travel/map to plan your route. Other considerations...
What is bike parking like at your work? Is it secure?
Do you need a lock?
Is there a place to plug in an electric bike? Can you also lock your bike there? Or will you need to buy an extra charger to keep at work?
Do you have showers? Someplace to dry wet stuff? Can you keep a change of clothes at work? Or take clothes and toiletries on the days you take the train, so you don't have to on the days you ride 15 miles?
If you are going to carry things with you everyday, it's best to do so in panniers, or another bag on the bike. A rucksack is feasible, but it is much easier to carry stuff on your bike than your body.
Good luck figuring it all out. Don't be shy about coming back on here and asking more questions.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
That Brompton would be expensive. And it would need a recharge at work. But it would also allow you to do other journeys using trains, so might enhance non work related journeys. That extra flexibility could be something to think about.
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
My wife has a electric folder and it is fine but on the heavy side for stairs. I thought the idea of a good folder and public transport would be a workable situation. Is it ok to take a folder on a bus? I assume it is as buggies are allowed and suitcases so a fair bit of mix and match using apps for timing could be interesting.
No idea about the effort of humping a heavy bike up station steps, if any, would have on you physically but take care and enjoy your new fitness levels.
No idea about the effort of humping a heavy bike up station steps, if any, would have on you physically but take care and enjoy your new fitness levels.
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
For e bikes consider where you store it at home and work. Although fine for riding in the rain faults can and will occur if left in standing rain or in damp condition's.Security is the main issue as batteries are not cheap to replace and lcd screens also if someone attempts to nick it thinking it is something other.
The best advice with ebikes is to go and try some out, a hub motor drive will give amore relaxing ride then a crank.mid drive like bosch/Yamaha etc. Though with hub drives repairing a flat can be a bit of a faff.
Pedelecs uk forum is a specific ebike forum for advice and help so another option which might aid your choice.
The best advice with ebikes is to go and try some out, a hub motor drive will give amore relaxing ride then a crank.mid drive like bosch/Yamaha etc. Though with hub drives repairing a flat can be a bit of a faff.
Pedelecs uk forum is a specific ebike forum for advice and help so another option which might aid your choice.
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
Realtime wrote:Hi everyone,
Due to a recent seizure unfortunately my drivers license has been revoked for the minimum of a year. Ryan
Before buying a bike I would recommend speaking to your GP to find out if the chance of future seizures might affect your ability to ride safely.
If you do get a bike then £2500 is plenty to get more than one, possibly an electrically assisted one for the entire ride and a folder for when you take the train. Whilst it is possible to maintain a speed in excess of 15 mph on a 'normal' bike for long periods it's only easy if you are fit, it's not hilly (things that don't look like hill in a car are very noticeable on a bike), you're not riding all the way to work into a stiff headwind and being dark and raining can slow you down. If you have a bike already or can borrow one try the journey and see how it feels and the be honest with yourself as to whether you could do this every (working) day.
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
lots of practical advice in above posts. To which I'd add that different train companies have different rules about folding bikes, and in addition to that they are likely to be enforced differently on the trains that you wish to travel on. I'd suggest that step one is to find out what constitutes a folding bike that will be carried on your train even when it is busy, to see what your choices really are.
If they are relaxed enough then there are some folding bikes with 26" wheels (or even 700C wheels) that don't fold very small but are more like normal bikes to ride. I know a few people who have one such as their only bike, and do lots of miles, aiming to go by train when the fancy takes them, pretty much. BTW the rule is usually that anything that is wrapped is 'luggage' and they have different rules for that. So a good fallback position is to carry a big bin liner (or rubble sack) and aim to put the folded bike into that if you get a problem; it may make the difference between travelling or not.
Regarding speeds and your commute, I think that (given a few givens) taking the train or using an electric bike will have roughly the same effect, being that it won't save you a lot of time (vs cycling all the way on a normal bike), but it will save you some energy. When the weather is bad, you will stay drier using the train.
Any significant hill en route is likely to cost you a little time, but can be net energy expenditure neutral, or not, depending on whether you pedal as you go downhill or not.
On flat road, the same amount of effort as is required to walk briskly will propel an average bike at about 12mph. If you have moderate fitness and a reasonable bike, about 15mph is a reasonable objective. If you get pretty fit, averaging nearer 20mph is possible.
I do hope you find a solution that works for you.
cheers
If they are relaxed enough then there are some folding bikes with 26" wheels (or even 700C wheels) that don't fold very small but are more like normal bikes to ride. I know a few people who have one such as their only bike, and do lots of miles, aiming to go by train when the fancy takes them, pretty much. BTW the rule is usually that anything that is wrapped is 'luggage' and they have different rules for that. So a good fallback position is to carry a big bin liner (or rubble sack) and aim to put the folded bike into that if you get a problem; it may make the difference between travelling or not.
Regarding speeds and your commute, I think that (given a few givens) taking the train or using an electric bike will have roughly the same effect, being that it won't save you a lot of time (vs cycling all the way on a normal bike), but it will save you some energy. When the weather is bad, you will stay drier using the train.
Any significant hill en route is likely to cost you a little time, but can be net energy expenditure neutral, or not, depending on whether you pedal as you go downhill or not.
On flat road, the same amount of effort as is required to walk briskly will propel an average bike at about 12mph. If you have moderate fitness and a reasonable bike, about 15mph is a reasonable objective. If you get pretty fit, averaging nearer 20mph is possible.
I do hope you find a solution that works for you.
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
Sorry to read about your health problems and I hope you recover fully 
Faced with a 15mile commute I'd go electric,and I'd buy the best you can afford with a high capacity battery somewhere above 10ah.
You could buy a mid range bike an a have it converted or fit the conversion yourself if your handy.
The pelecec forum is full of experts with good advice:- http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/
Faced with a 15mile commute I'd go electric,and I'd buy the best you can afford with a high capacity battery somewhere above 10ah.
You could buy a mid range bike an a have it converted or fit the conversion yourself if your handy.
The pelecec forum is full of experts with good advice:- http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
As a pretty fit long term cycle commuter, I would baulk at a daily unassisted 15 miles each way unless perhaps it was easy flat roads all the way. I would regard a 20mph average as exceptional but, again, it depends partly on route.
So I would recommend an ebike although I have no experience with them.
So I would recommend an ebike although I have no experience with them.
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
For much of the summer I averaged a fair bit over 20mph, but that's on a recumbent low racer (raptobike with a virtual 75tooth big ring, I ought to put sportier tyres on it though).
I don't get that sort of speed in the winter, although I don't think I dropped below 15 (maybe except with studded tyres on)...
Note that I have a decade of commuting behind me, I knew I could do 10 miles each way, because I did it for a few years. 15 was sufficient (particularly after 9 months 'off') that I got the e-assist partly to help my early fitness. It has once saved me from a bonk (early on in the commute).
You will need to eat a significant amount more, and get your lunchtime/early afternoon nutrition right - it's important for getting home!
You also need to budget for clothing/shoes/gloves/glasses...
If fear of future seizures is significant then a 'bent trike might be an attractive option...
I don't get that sort of speed in the winter, although I don't think I dropped below 15 (maybe except with studded tyres on)...
Note that I have a decade of commuting behind me, I knew I could do 10 miles each way, because I did it for a few years. 15 was sufficient (particularly after 9 months 'off') that I got the e-assist partly to help my early fitness. It has once saved me from a bonk (early on in the commute).
You will need to eat a significant amount more, and get your lunchtime/early afternoon nutrition right - it's important for getting home!
You also need to budget for clothing/shoes/gloves/glasses...
If fear of future seizures is significant then a 'bent trike might be an attractive option...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
[XAP]Bob wrote:...I don't get that sort of speed in the winter...
Interesting, my speed doesn't change much from one season to the next (on an upright bike).
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Re: Electric vs high quality pedal
You could get this as a low cost punt https://www.merlincycles.com/merlin-lon ... 85952.html (£295 here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Merlin-Londo ... Sw0GJZnE5~ ) and still leaves you with enough money for a nice non electric. 40 mile range and hub drive, 8 hour charging.