How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Psamathe
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby Psamathe » 3 Feb 2018, 7:41pm

tsherwen wrote:....3) I worry that a heavy-handed approach (e.g. police involvement) may lead to resentment that could worsen the driver in question’s attitude. .....

In my past "reportings" (to employers) I have considered that - getting reprimanded by an employer and a note in your personal record might cause problems if looking to change job, etc. and the possibility always exists that such action will anger the driver to the point of hatred of cyclists (with punishment passes, cutting-up, etc.).

But I come to the view that a driver has done something dangerous and wrong. If we accept and ignore this then it will undoubtedly continue, cyclists taking whatever drivers care to allow us. So whilst I've thought about that aspect it has never stopped me reporting as the driver has already demonstrated how dangerous they are and how they fail to consider cyclists. And once the employer is involved it should be on the personnel record so another report and it can get a lot worse for them (assuming a responsible employer).

So I balance the aspects as to how to achieve most. With some companies I report all details (location, time (making reg. less important), etc.). With some companies I come to the view that more can be achieved by reporting an incident without details but pursuing the "corporate responsibility" and that the underlying cause is more unending pressure to do ever more in ever less time and suggesting that additional driver training might avoid the need for Police to be involved in the specific incident....

But I come to the view that we either shut-up about being cut-up, close passes, ignored, etc. or we speak out and report the worse drivers and try and improve things.

But one thing I always do is to make absolutely sure that the driver does not get to spoil the rest of my ride. After the incident I review the events in my mind, note minimal details necessary (normally time is enough) and then switch-off about it and continue enjoying my ride.

Ian

brynpoeth
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby brynpoeth » 3 Feb 2018, 10:24pm

I do not think involving the police would be 'heavy handed'

In future I would ride well outside the door zone, one must expect drivers to pull out without looking too

Are you related to Paul Sherwen?
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

irc
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Location: glasgow

Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby irc » 3 Feb 2018, 11:21pm

As you were injured it is a reportable road accident which you can choose to report to the police.

If you told the driver you were injured he was then required to give you his name and address and also report it to the police unless he also produced his insurance cert.

If you didn't tell him you were injured then as he isn't aware a reportable accident occurred he isn't required to report it.

Whether you report it or not the important lesson is not to ride within a door's width of parked cars. Especially vans where it can't be seen on approach whether there is anyone in the driver's seat.

simonhill
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby simonhill » 4 Feb 2018, 12:35am

You didn't answer my question about what did you say to the driver.

Is he even aware that you were hurt?

He said sorry, what did you say? This could have a major bearing on how he sees the incident. If you said something like "Oh, OK mate" he may consider the incident closed.

I'm not trying to side with the driver, but if you didn't put the case to him how can you expect him to do anything.

Samuel D
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby Samuel D » 4 Feb 2018, 11:13am

I think this driver, who has apologised, has learnt a valuable lesson already. Involving the police will get nowhere and all parties (police, the driver, and everyone the driver talks to) will resent you and other cyclists for it.

For these reasons I would not pursue it.

You’ve learnt a lesson too: don’t drive in the door zone. That’s a good outcome in my books.

Psamathe
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby Psamathe » 4 Feb 2018, 12:58pm

Deciding not to pursue the driver does not mean you cannot pursue the incident. I've pursued incidents before without identifying the driver and had what I consider successes.

If OP decides not to pursue the driver they can still pursue the incident in a manner that could help cyclists and maybe even make the offending driver more positive about cyclists. Contact the company, tell them about the incident but not the vehicle/location/time so they cannot identify the driver. Tell them that these incidents highlight shortcomings in the employer as much or more than the drivers themselves and them push them to additional driver training and/or to use whatever means they have to raise the profile of cyclists to drivers and get the company to tell their drivers that they "take reports of such incidents very seriously", etc. Tell them that you don't want to get the Police involved, etc. and the additional training and reminders could suffice to ensure similar incidents are avoided (something any responsible company would be doing anyway).

Offending driver will then realise that the OP has not reported/identified them and thus cyclists are nice people ... i.e. cyclist could have got driver in a lot of trouble but chose not to.

Ian

thirdcrank
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby thirdcrank » 4 Feb 2018, 1:55pm

I can only reiterate that deciding what you hope to achieve is a good starting point.

tsherwen
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby tsherwen » 5 Feb 2018, 3:25pm

Thank everyone for you further comments. I have involved the police and contacted the company without giving enough information for them to identify the driver.

Psamathe, Thanks for you thoughts. I reached the same position after thinking it through.

simonhill, I was still in shock/working out how injured I was when the driver spoke and did not have time to respond before he left the scene. It was dark and the driver would not have known how injured I was without talking to me.

brynpoeth, it was a single carriageway with cars parked on both sides (like large amounts of London). I do keep a distance from cars (aka a "door zone"). However please note that if you added a door zone to the traffic parked on both sides, a large amount of roads in London would have effectively no useable space.

Thanks,

Tomas

Vorpal
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Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby Vorpal » 5 Feb 2018, 6:39pm

tsherwen wrote:
brynpoeth, it was a single carriageway with cars parked on both sides (like large amounts of London). I do keep a distance from cars (aka a "door zone"). However please note that if you added a door zone to the traffic parked on both sides, a large amount of roads in London would have effectively no useable space.

In that sort of circumstance, I ride right in the middle. That also keeps cars from overtaking where there isn't space, and slows oncoming traffic.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby Psamathe » 5 Feb 2018, 6:42pm

tsherwen wrote:Thank everyone for you further comments. I have involved the police and contacted the company without giving enough information for them to identify the driver.
....

Please do report back what happens, what progress you make through Police and what progress through employer, etc. as apart from being interesting it helps others making similar decisions.

Ian

David9694
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Joined: 10 Feb 2018, 8:42am

Re: How to follow up being “cardoor’ed” (when driver left the scene, but address is known)

Postby David9694 » 10 Feb 2018, 10:15am

I would say don’t approach the house direct yourself, irrespective of how sure you are or not it’s the right one.

I took my late fathers advice on this a couple of days after a crash 11 years ago and hand delivered a letter - I knocked the door which was answered I said who I was and what the letter was and that was that. Imagine my surprise by to be rung up later on by the police - they’d reported me!!

Separately the driver had also lied through her teeth to the police about what happened; no police action was taken, despite a witness, who was brilliant, saw it all and that helped me get civil compensation via lawyers and insurance.

Still seething about how horrible some people are, after nearly 11 years!!