Family cycle carrying vehicles - any ideas?

[pwa]

I have to go back to suggesting a proper trailer.

The car you need, with a tow bar.
Then a box trailer for the bikes/luggage

Nowhere to store the trailer, Bob.

[Tangled Metal]

Two adults and one young child. Why would I need to carry 5 bikes? One recumbent, one adults bike and one 16" wheeled kids bike. For short journeys it fits into our car (well an upright within the saddle / seatpost out instead of the 'bent). All three bikes that is. The' bent is the issue really.

I've seen bikes in cars, vans, minibuses, etc. I've seen various roof, boot and hitch mounted carriers. I've seen little trailers with bikes on roof bars with roof bike racks right up to big trailers carrying loads of bikes (like the centre trailers for kayaks that I've towed behind minibuses before now). With the exception of trailers I'd be open to most of these if they'd work with recumbent and bikes.

As I see it there's three viable options for us. The small panel van with second row of seats and windows. A vw style / size of van or small vivaro/trafic perhaps nv200. The second is a reasonable sized estate car with suitable roof based carrying system. I've got bars and two frame support racks but need a fork based support rack or a wheel support rack for the recumbent. Kid's bike will fit inside for some time still. When it doesn't I'll have the second frame support rack ready. The final option is a car that's big enough for three seats, recumbent, adult mtb small / medium size and 16" kids bike inside it.

I have no idea of the first option other than too expensive vw, or boxy trafic/vivaro. This option allows quick loading without having to pack carefully. Any better ideas?

The second idea we almost have. Our car is a seat Altea Xl that is big enough for our needs just we feel it's no longer as good. The rack I'm looking at is the following.

https://www.roofbox.co.uk/scripts/rbvehsel4_tab.php/car-specific-accessories/atera_giro_speed_fork_mount_bike_carrier_ar2221/Qx%40w%2C6M42VAwp3%40Rb%7B~cC4ure%60Hvo3

The third option our seat Altea Xl is close to matching. We can fit our three bikes in it with adult bike front wheels off and my XL bike with seatpost removed. Not much room for camping kit but roof box could help (we have one). I'm not sure what cars are just that bit bigger. I'm guessing the fiat doblo (larger one with more headroom and longer wheelbase). Or ford galaxy of they're still around at reasonable price and not too old. We did look at a galaxy when we got our current car. The newer smax looks lower down and smaller.

It seems car tastes are reducing the estate and bigger mpv in favour of the suv/crossover car.

Of you were to limit suggestions to one of these three options what vehicle would you suggest?

[pwa]

Our former Octavia estate went down to the South of France with two Thorn tandems on the roof, using Pendle racks. And one tandem with two solos. I don't know how to get a recumbent happy on a car roof, but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done. A few hundred quids worth of racks and straps, combined with a decent estate car. Length of roof matters. Out tandems were longer than the car roof, so I had the overhang at the front. Over the windscreen. I had to pad the rear of the longest rack because the rear door (boot) touched it when open. But it all worked.

If stuff is to go on the roof, a tall car makes things a lot more difficult.

SUV? How would that work. They don't usually have very long boots.

[hamster]

For the recumbent I'd be tempted to make a support frame that fits roof bars with custom tie-downs to secure the bike. Probably a good starting point is a short aluminium ladder, with u-bolts to hold it to the rack.

I went with a conventional estate car as it's easy to park and economical to drive when not carrying bikes. I don't want to drive in a big van all the time, plus they are difficult with multistorey car parks etc. People carriers and 4x4s are a struggle to load things onto the roof as they are so tall.

[reohn2]

Have you looked at an S max physically?
They're cavernous,you could fold all rear seats but one for your child fit the 'bent* inside,any luggage behind the rear seat and a Thule tow bar rack for the other two bikes.

*I'm assuming the 'bent is not a trike.

[Tangled Metal]

Fewer conventional estates around these days. Certainly harder to find secondhand round here.

There's a few vans around that fit under 2.1m that most carparks set their barriers to. Plus 40-50mpg is not unusual these days. Small van market is looking for efficient vans just like car drivers. Although that's compared to 50-60mpg for cars I reckon. Add bikes to roofs and you knock 15%off fuel economy. I certainly notice it with just our bars and two bike racks on our car, no bikes on neither.

I prefer cars but increasingly see that the right van could work just as well if not better for some things. My partner likes the idea of being able to load bikes into a van herself. She has no chance of getting bikes onto our car roof. It's a pain for me at 6'5" tall! We're talking mtb with rack on that's not light or my bike that's 9.5kg before rack, guards and various brackets.

There's no chance of my partner packing up for an early dart Friday afternoon and picking me up at work on the way because I need to be at home to load bikes.

Now years ago you could get kayak holders / racks that tilted and slid down from the roof to allow loading up lower down. Then you slid it back up onto the roof. I never saw anyone with one because ppl just climbed up, even standing on bonnets of needed, but it looks more useful now if there was a bike version.

[Tangled Metal]

Smax is smaller than galaxy was inside but looks the best car option. It's based on the mondeo along with the edge and galaxy. There is a grand smax too apparently.

I'm wary of fords these days. Some of their cars dropped NCAP rating suddenly. IIRC a 4 became a 3 which is terrible for a car. A 3 hits a 4 or 5 rated and even though they might be similar cars the 3 will come off wise. I'm on my second car that's been a 4 rating if not third car. IIRC the cars based on focus (kuga, cmax) all dropped to NCAP 3! Since I got told that there might be a new mondeo model plus cars based on it out. Wouldn't bet against an NCAP drop there too.

Am I being too fussy?

[hamster]

Fewer conventional estates around these days. Certainly harder to find secondhand round here.

Ford Focus and Vauxhall Astra still around, however my experience was that many were ex-fleet vehicles. There seem to be lots more VW Golf estates around now, but generally it's Skoda, Merc, Audi or BMW. None of these are poor choices - well made and economical to run. What's surprising is that they are the same size as the Focus within 5-10cm.

[reohn2]

....Am I being too fussy?

IMO yes.
What NCAP numbers do the vans your thinking of get?

[rotavator]

I'm wary of fords these days. Some of their cars dropped NCAP rating suddenly. IIRC a 4 became a 3 which is terrible for a car. A 3 hits a 4 or 5 rated and even though they might be similar cars the 3 will come off wise.

I guess the drop in NCAP rating was caused by NCAP raising their standards, in particular by requiring collision avoidance technology in a vehicle for it to get all 5 stars, rather than Ford making flimsier cars. Not that that is an excuse, it is better to avoid a collision in the first place than to have to worry about which vehicle's occupants come off worse in a crash.

Getting back to the OP, there are new versions of the Peugeot Partner and Citroen Berlingo vans and mini-SUVs coming out soon, hopefully with some decent petrol engines in them. The Berlingo seems to be popular with mountain bikers, according to a recent thread on the Singletrack forum.

[Tangled Metal]

I believe Ford cars come with collision avoidance technology, certainly in the models I looked at in my local dealership. It still didn't help their NCAP figures. The saleswoman was quite scathing about ford. Said she'd not buy or drive those models given the choice. Not good from a ford main dealership! She did say why the drop but I can't remember. Only that it was more to do with the structure / design of the car not the electronics.

Vans benefit from size. A large 4 rated vehicle comes out better than a smaller 4 rated car. In an impact. Higher up I guess also helps prevent accidents through better vision over what's ahead perhaps.

[rotavator]

I guess that Ford saleswoman is serving her notice.

[reohn2]

I believe Ford cars come with collision avoidance technology, certainly in the models I looked at in my local dealership. It still didn't help their NCAP figures. The saleswoman was quite scathing about ford. Said she'd not buy or drive those models given the choice. Not good from a ford main dealership! She did say why the drop but I can't remember. Only that it was more to do with the structure / design of the car not the electronics.

Have I got this right,a main Ford agent saleswoman was telling you not to buy a Ford because she thought they weren't safe?

Vans benefit from size. A large 4 rated vehicle comes out better than a smaller 4 rated car. In an impact.

Do you have figures on that?

Higher up I guess also helps prevent accidents through better vision over what's ahead perhaps.

Having owned driven Transits for 20 odd years and witnessed other large high up vans and the way they're driven.I'd suggest the problem most encountered with that size van is a might is right mentality and driving over the the car immediately in front missing it out of the equation,which can and does in many cases leads to tailgating.

Anyway this is a thread drift,personally I like Ford's,cheap to run comfortable and generally blaady good cars and vans IME

[pwa]

If you want to just put the bikes in the back a van with two rows of seats seems the obvious choice. And I mean a proper van, not a car based van. You will have to check, of course, that the load area of the van is long enough to take a bike without dismantling.

Berlingos and estates will take bikes in the back (I do that a lot with my Golf estate) but unless you dismantle the bikes you will be putting seats down and that won't work for you.

Pick-ups that I know have load areas that are too short for many bikes. You get all the disadvantages of a van without the nice easy to use load area.

With a van your motoring costs will go up. Whatever fuel efficiency figures you believe, a car will use less than a van. I've driven many vans and minibuses, and I've driven an estate with tandems on the roof. I've driven hundreds of miles across France with tandems on the roof and of course you do see a marked reduction in fuel efficiency. But with a proper van you will have that lower efficiency for all your journeys, not just those with bikes. And your difficulty in finding parking spaces will increase.

It's not an easy one and I don't pretend to have the answers you need.

[NUKe]

Nissan Elgrand, I fold up the rear seat push the middle row left forward and I can get the grasshopper in . Plus anther couple of bikes and still have four seats .