what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
pwa
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby pwa » 5 Apr 2018, 10:08am

The problem is the distance between the purchaser and the builder. If I were angry about something like that I would go to the premises and stand there until I had a satisfactory answer. Preferably in the presence of other potential customers. I'd make things really awkward. I've done that before and it works. But in this case the distance prevents that.

mercalia
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby mercalia » 5 Apr 2018, 4:51pm

pwa wrote:The problem is the distance between the purchaser and the builder. If I were angry about something like that I would go to the premises and stand there until I had a satisfactory answer. Preferably in the presence of other potential customers. I'd make things really awkward. I've done that before and it works. But in this case the distance prevents that.


yes it does. Remember clives sinclairs little toys before he made the Spectrum? One was a scientific calculator that unfortuantely gave the wrong answers :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: I was a teen ager then so my dad drove all the way to Cambridge and demanded the money back - at the time he was showing some Arab vips around so my dad was got rid of pretty quick with the money :lol: :lol: :lol:

thirdcrank
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Apr 2018, 7:27pm

It's occurred to me that some years ago, I had some problems with orders which took longer than I had expected. The first was something I had ordered specially for my younger son's eighteenth birthday. He's 43 now, which dates this. In those days, the West Yorkshire Trading Standards office nearby in Gildersome had a walk-in advice service. I walked in and they explained that it all depends on the contract and in particular, whether "time is of the essence." ie Is the delivery date a fundamental part of the contract? Sometimes, a company's small print will say that time is not of the essence. Generally, you are stuck with trying to prove what was or was not agreed. They also said that when considering withdrawing from the contract, AKA cancelling the order, it would make the case stronger if the would-be purchaser set a reasonable deadline eg a few weeks and wrote to the vendor that "I now wish to emphasise that time is of the essence in this contract, and I will cancel my order if it is not fulfilled by (date.)

A couple of years after that I had a problem with the Open University's trading arm. A reprint of a Stationery Office publication was a set book on my OU course and only available from there. Everybody ordered it as an important course resource but it wasn't ready in time. The academic side adjusted the course so as not to penalise students for not having the book but washed its hands over the unsatisfactory business transaction. Next news, anybody cancelling the book was going to be stung for a cancellation fee. On the blower to WY Trading Standards and a helpful chap said "leave it with me." A few minutes later he was back on saying they had seen sense and there would be no cancellation charge. He explained that the crux was that it was implied in the contract that time was of the essence because they knew that students were ordering it for use in connection with that course and it was needed by a specific date which was long gone.

I've no idea if this is still the law, but it's a starting point when researching online. Unfortunately, services to members of the public have been part of the cuts in Trading Standards Departments. :(

justintime
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby justintime » 25 Apr 2018, 1:34pm

reohn2 wrote:
justintime wrote:Visited Steve Goff at his workshop & ordered a frame a month ago. And paid a deposit. hope it won't take 18 months!!

Where do you live? :?

Near Preston, so not far from Steve's workshop

reohn2
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby reohn2 » 25 Apr 2018, 5:44pm

justintime wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
justintime wrote:Visited Steve Goff at his workshop & ordered a frame a month ago. And paid a deposit. hope it won't take 18 months!!

Where do you live? :?

Near Preston, so not far from Steve's workshop

You're in with a chance then :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

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hujev
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby hujev » 8 Aug 2018, 5:20pm

A follow-up to this, for the information of those interested and those with ideas.

As mentioned above, I transferred £1000 to Goff in September 2016 and no progress had been made (other than excuses) as of march of this year when I asked to cancel the order.

The last communication I had with Goff was March 3rd of this year (when he said he was having money troubles and felt he was entitled to keep £200 of the deposit).

Despite many attempts via email and phone (including various offers to allow more time, ask for explanations of difficulties and work around, etc.) there's nothing from him. So I assume he has no intention to refund any of my £1000 or build a frame - or even to explain himself, ask for yet more time, further insult me, etc.

I certainly regret having trusted him to say the least (but have had perfect success with honest UK builders like Woodrup and Stanforth!).

So I'm looking into the 'money claims online' process mentioned earlier; need to see if available to non-UK citizens outside the UK. The one thing i think I need is a UK mailing address or relayer service - any advice on that would be appreciated.

I'd like to recover most or some of my money, and of course keep the £1000 from Goff...

If anyone has any advice, it'd be appreciated.

thirdcrank
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Aug 2018, 6:32pm

I've looked through the whole thread to check what's already been said. At one point you mentioned you had no contract. In fact, you may have no written contract but you almost certainly have a contract; the problem can sometimes be in interpreting it, especially if the retailer imposes their own conditions eg on a website where orders are placed. Retail contracts are also subject to various regulations. In particular, I've no real idea how you might deal with the English courts from abroad. I wonder if the US Embassy or consular service may have some guidance. I can't imagine you are the first person based outside England trying to recover money from somebody who is.

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hujev
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby hujev » 8 Aug 2018, 6:44pm

I've got an email chain with his estimated cost per my (fairly standard) specs (~£1200; thought I'd be decent and deposit most of the cost to limit his pre-expense!), various promise times not met (several times), etc. and confirmation of the deposit/payment so I think it'd be pretty hard for him to claim the work was finished & delivered, started in part, or refunded. Reluctant to go to the embassy though for £1000! So the 'small claims' option seems reasonable. I may have found a 'service' that can receive & forward UK mail. The important thing, aside from principle, is that the costs don't exceed the damages!

thirdcrank
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Re: what's going on with framebuilder steve goff?

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Aug 2018, 7:22pm

I don't think that anybody has linked to the regulations covering retail purchases, including those made by phone. (ie verbal contract.)

This seems to be here:-
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... egulations
I've no idea of your rights when the order is placed from another country.

From the section "Delivery of goods:-"
There is a default delivery period of 30 days during which the retailer needs to deliver the goods to you unless a longer period has been agreed.

If your delivery is later than agreed and it was essential that it was delivered on time, then you have the right to cancel the purchase and get a full refund.

If the delivery isn’t time essential but another reasonable delivery time can’t be agreed, you’re also within your right to cancel the order for a full refund.


BTW, we have defamation laws here, which apply to CyclingUK as the host of the forum.