Problem with aluminium.

[Peter W]

Thank you for the explanation Mr. Ankles. That's what must have happened to that post. i.e. pressed submit -post appeared -changed to Met Office site - switched off -checked later and post vanished. Perhaps If I submit at 3.25 A.M. infuture (first morning light mid summer) It will avoid that issue.

Also, thanks for the 100% carbon bike explanation Mr. Evil. i.e. just carbon with the minimum necessary resin, and few other additions apart from surface protection and paint.

Incidentally, during a break a few years back in a racing windsurf meeting held in a tropical country, the racers all left their highly tensioned 100% black carbon masts fully rigged, laying on the beach in the blazing sunlight, only for many of them to self destruct (loud cracks and bangs) . I don't think many of them saw the funny side -apart perhaps for the sponsored sailors!

I had that in mind yesterday in that blazing hottest day of the year while out on the carbon Spesh Roubaix. I firmly put its survival down to the great velocity with which I was proceeding (as the police might say) thereby inducing a considerable cooling air flow over the frame, to save it fromm imminent self destruction. Naturally I was frying, but one makes sacrifices to save one's bike!!

[The utility cyclist]

stop stressing, you've more chance of being killed by a terrorist than you have of dying from an alu frame failure.
9 years on from buying my specialized globe and with an alu steerer on carbon fork blade it's taken as big a beatig and with loads as well as my 100kg plus at times with another person on board and not blinked. I never check i for cracks, I didn't check it after I got hit n run, nor after rammed from behind nor after two other incidents in which it hit the deck involving motors. I suspect the carbon seatstays have a lot to do with the robustness and a steel frame would have wilted and be scrapped by now

[Peter W]

I am not obsessing for the sake of it Mr. utility. Like everybody else, when young and in the prime of life such tghings were never given much thought. Bouncing back from injury and mishaps was just expected. (Closest shave a surfing accident and near drowning involving being plucked out unconscious, and hospitalisation.)

However age (80 years old last November) enforces a very different outlook on safety precautions if one wishes to continue with all the activities you always have done. You cannot afford to disregard the fact that any further mishap could bring it all to a premature end. (83 year old climbing friend fell and broke his hip. He never recovered well enough to continue with that life. Another 78 year old sea sport friend developed pneumonia. It brought his life to an end.)

Hence, maintaining fitness and ability, in SAFETY, could now be called an obsession, but a very necessary one if I wish to continue to 'push' and maintain any level in those things which I see as having defined my time on earth. And that, most certainly, is what I wish to do.

Sorry to seem to gone on about things, but perhaps that explains it. (I'll bow out from the thread. Thank you.)

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

stop stressing, you've more chance of being killed by a terrorist than you have of dying from an alu frame failure.
9 years on from buying my specialized globe and with an alu steerer on carbon fork blade it's taken as big a beatig and with loads as well as my 100kg plus at times with another person on board and not blinked. I never check i for cracks, I didn't check it after I got hit n run, nor after rammed from behind nor after two other incidents in which it hit the deck involving motors. I suspect the carbon seatstays have a lot to do with the robustness and a steel frame would have wilted and be scrapped by now

That seems to fly in the face of all caution.

[amediasatex]

Indeed, I’m not obsessive about it but regular checks for damage and fatigue are a sensible precaution regardless of material. I’ve broken over a dozen frames personally in the last 20-25 years and lost count of the number I’ve dealt with first hand from my time in the trade and through riding friends. Component breakages even more numerous but fortunately I’ve never suffered a fork failure while riding (retired several before imminent failure though), and I’ve only witnessed it twice but that’s enough to make you worry about it.

As others have said on this thread already it’s not so much a matter of material itself but about the design and execution, I don’t think I’d ever go as far as retiring an otherwise ok bike based purely on age, but I would recommend regular checks regardless of age and material and especially if you know your components get a hard life.

[The utility cyclist]

Hi,

stop stressing, you've more chance of being killed by a terrorist than you have of dying from an alu frame failure.
9 years on from buying my specialized globe and with an alu steerer on carbon fork blade it's taken as big a beatig and with loads as well as my 100kg plus at times with another person on board and not blinked. I never check i for cracks, I didn't check it after I got hit n run, nor after rammed from behind nor after two other incidents in which it hit the deck involving motors. I suspect the carbon seatstays have a lot to do with the robustness and a steel frame would have wilted and be scrapped by now

That seems to fly in the face of all caution.

Why? How many people have died from their bike failing structurally, say in the last 30 years? How many people who ride aluminium or any material for that matter are bothered enough to check their bikes for structural damage on a frequent basis? If I heard a sound that sounded like something was awry/significantly different to normal or the handling/feel was odd I'd have a quick look, as it is, it never has so I don't, I don't see how that is being uncautious even after a crash. There are bigger things to worry about IMHO.

[The utility cyclist]

Indeed, I’m not obsessive about it but regular checks for damage and fatigue are a sensible precaution regardless of material. I’ve broken over a dozen frames personally in the last 20-25 years and lost count of the number I’ve dealt with first hand from my time in the trade and through riding friends. Component breakages even more numerous but fortunately I’ve never suffered a fork failure while riding (retired several before imminent failure though), and I’ve only witnessed it twice but that’s enough to make you worry about it.

As others have said on this thread already it’s not so much a matter of material itself but about the design and execution, I don’t think I’d ever go as far as retiring an otherwise ok bike based purely on age, but I would recommend regular checks regardless of age and material and especially if you know your components get a hard life.

I've never broken a frame ever since I started cycling regularly as a 13 year old going back to the mid 80s and I crashed my old steel raleigh a few times as I learnt the ropes, crashed of my own accord going too fast on my old alu commuter, knocked off too many times, had a big off at speed due to a chasm in the road and as I said rear ended. Maybe I'm lucky but I think you killing a dozen frames says something about the operator and/or use.

[amediasatex]

Maybe I'm lucky but I think you killing a dozen frames says something about the operator and/or use.

Exactly my point, my kit has a hard life* so regular checks are a prudent precaution. If you’re light on kit or don’t do many miles then you can be less cautious but the occasional check still isnt a bad idea as some failures are early-life due to defect and not necessarily use related.

I’d not retire an item purely due to age or at particular mileage if there’s no obvious issues when inspected, but if you don’t check on things you’ll never spot any problems before they happen. I’ve found things before during routine checks that were literally accidents waiting to happen, and had failures before with no funny symptoms present until the moment they break so occasional checks can definitely be worthwhile.

Over the years through the trade, social riding and racing I’ve seen as many things survive big impacts as I’ve seen fall apart while just riding normally so luck does indeed seem to play a part!

*FWIW only one of those frame breakages was due to crash damage, all the others have been either defect or fatigue under normal use for the type of frame.

[flat tyre]

?...fortunately I’ve never suffered a fork failure while riding (retired several before imminent failure though)......

What symptoms would indicate imminent fork failure?

[amediasatex]

?...fortunately I’ve never suffered a fork failure while riding (retired several before imminent failure though)......

What symptoms would indicate imminent fork failure?

Well that’s exactly the problem... forks can and sometimes do fail almost instantly, it is rare that you get warning but if you’re lucky you’ll get wobbles, knocks, creaks or noticeable alignment/steering issues before hand. But, there’s normally a very small window between feeling something and full failure as forks are one of the most loaded areas and there’s little structural redundancy built in like there is with say, breaking a single frame tube.

One of the most frightening ones I’ve witnessed was a friend of mine, he hit a fairly innocuous pothole and one side of the crown of his fork (a basic hybrid suspension fork) split so that that leg was no longer attached to the crown. Needless to say he was deposited on the floor within a second or so!

The impact of the pothole was nowhere near big enough to cause the break alone, and subsequent inspection showed that both back AND front sides of the crown had been cracked for some time, and evidently the pothole was enough to finish it off. He reported no prior symptoms but I am totally convinced that the cracks would have been visible prior IF he had looked.

EDIT

I realised you may have been asking what lead me to retire forks?

In most cases it’s been creaking, causing me to inspect and find cracks. But in at least one case I’ve found a crack during a routine check (while fitting a new headset) which lead me to bin a fork. I don’t know how long it would have lasted until it actually broke, but frankly that’s not an experiment I want to participate in!

There is one that left me I. Open mouthed disbelief... I went to remove a front wheel on one bike, and as I reached for the QR, noticed what looked like a hair across the dropout face, opened the QR only to have the dropout fall into two pieces on the floor! I had been riding that bike only moments earlier totally unaware that the only thing holding the front end together was the friction of the QR on half the dropout, pretty much any decent bump would have caused that to end badly...got a cold sweat from that one.

[amediasatex]

In a bizarre case of serendipity I've discovered a couple of suspect cracks on a fork of mine last night while giving it a clean, no symptoms prompted inspection it was just routine while cleaning.

It's an older Time fork, steel steerer, aluminum crown, carbon legs, so all the materials in one! It's an exact repeat of what happened on another similar fork of mine a while back. On both legs on the inside* a crack has appeared where the carbon legs join the crown. It might just be the paint that has cracked at the join due to age but the fact that it has cracked implies to me that there is at least some flex or movement occurring there however small. I think I shall probably retire this fork just to be on the safe side as it looks like either the bonded joint is starting to fail, or one component (crown or leg) at least enough to cause movement.

Ho Hum, nothing lasts forever, especially composite forks...

* So not visible without removing the wheel and having a good old look up inside the fork.

[Samuel D]

You’re a hard man on bicycles.

[amediasatex]

You’re a hard man on bicycles.

I prefer to think that its the roads and trails that do the damage, leaves me with a clearer conscience

I'll post some pics of the Time fork when I get a moment to take some, might be handy for others as an example...

[Brucey]

That seems to fly in the face of all caution.

Why? How many people have died from their bike failing structurally, say in the last 30 years? ....

How many people need to die, quite unnecessarily? In point of fact there have been plenty of people who have been killed or seriously injured by having bits of their bikes breaking. In many cases the accident could have been avoided had the parts been inspected. I agree with natural ankling, if you think it can't happen to you, you are dreaming.

I have broken quite a few bike bits (including frames and forks) and have retired plenty more. I have also helped others avoid nasty accidents by spotting cracks etc in their bikes; once you get in the habit of looking you just can't stop yourself and such faults are surprisingly common.

BTW, IME telling others that their bike might break because it is cracked is something that you are rarely thanked for, even though you might have saved some miserable beggar from breaking their stupid neck. Somehow the fact that their bike is about to break is your fault because you spotted it.....

cheers

[The utility cyclist]

What % of people are told about their damage out of the total number of failures?? A minuscule number is how many, so the number of people you reckon have been saved (their lives) is very probably the grand sum of zero. Or are we simply not hearing about all these alu frame failures that are killing and maiming people?
The risk factor is so minimal as to be not measurable in the grand scheme of things, it's just like breakaway mudguards, Basically making out things to be a far bigger issue than it is.
Does/can alu fail, yes, as can all other materials, can it cause a bad outcome, yes, is that particularly a problem in terms of serious injuries/death, no it isn't and you've not got a jot of evidence to prove otherwise, stop making something out to be a massive mountain when it's not even a molehill!