Stove enamellig

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Grandad
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Stove enamellig

Postby Grandad » 20 Jun 2018, 1:00am

Stopped at a cafe today and was approached by a very senior citizen who said that he used to cycle a lot. Something we have all experienced I'm sure, followed with details of their bike - very often a Claud Butler.

Today it was a Dawes, but the most important thing was that he had it stove enamelled. He was very critical of the modern methods of painting frames.

This got me thinking - is it still possible to get a bike stove enamelled? I haven't seen this expression used for years, certainly not in any recent adverts for frame painting.

crazydave789
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby crazydave789 » 20 Jun 2018, 1:05am

probably not a common thing now but I think bob jackson still bakes his frames after painting which is all stove enameling is.

there's a film about raleigh kicking about where it shows them dipping frames into a paint vat which would then go off to be baked.

modern powder coating is deemed as durable followed by two pack.

tatanab
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby tatanab » 20 Jun 2018, 6:31am

Argos bake each coat http://argoscycles.com/resprays-refurb/ ... n-process/ but I do not think this is stove enamelling as we knew it in days of old. The difference is in the paint and thinners used ----- so I believe.

JakobW
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby JakobW » 20 Jun 2018, 9:28am

Yes, just like modern paint strippers are less powerful, modem paints are generally less durable, as the nastiest chemicals have been removed from commercially available products.

AIUI the old-school builders (Argos, Bob Jackson, Mercian &c.) still use a stoving process; the advantage over powder coat is that it's easier to do complex paintings, and (related) wet paints go on thinner, which shows off lug details and the like better. TBH I've no great complaints about the durability of my Bob Jackson respray; any chips or scrapes have been where I've banged the frame hard, and it's easy enough to touch up with modelling enamel; in contrast I've had trad enameled bikes that would chip as soon as you looked at them.

There are some modern frame painters that do amazing work with specialist automobile-type paints; they're not cheap though, as the paints themselves are expensive and getting a good and durable finish requires lots of work. You pays your money...

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Mick F
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby Mick F » 20 Jun 2018, 9:42am

My Mercian frame was built for me in the summer of 1986 and I took it back to them for a re-paint for its 21st birthday.
The paintwork in 1986 was FAR superior to the 2004 paintwork.
Not in the care and attention and the skills of the painter, but the durability of the finish. It chips chips and scratches easier now.

Considering its coming up to its 32nd birthday, I won't be taking it back ............... though I would if I could send it back in time to 1986 for a decent painting process.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Vetus Ossa
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby Vetus Ossa » 20 Jun 2018, 9:49am

Mick F wrote:My Mercian frame was built for me in the summer of 1986 and I took it back to them for a re-paint for its 21st birthday.
The paintwork in 1986 was FAR superior to the 2004 paintwork.
Not in the care and attention and the skills of the painter, but the durability of the finish. It chips chips and scratches easier now.

Considering its coming up to its 32nd birthday, I won't be taking it back ............... though I would if I could send it back in time to 1986 for a decent painting process.


Or just send it to Argos... :)

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Mick F
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby Mick F » 20 Jun 2018, 10:32am

Don't you just buy bikes from Argos?
http://www.argos.co.uk/search/bikes/
Mick F. Cornwall

pwa
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby pwa » 20 Jun 2018, 10:34am

Vetus Ossa wrote:
Mick F wrote:My Mercian frame was built for me in the summer of 1986 and I took it back to them for a re-paint for its 21st birthday.
The paintwork in 1986 was FAR superior to the 2004 paintwork.
Not in the care and attention and the skills of the painter, but the durability of the finish. It chips chips and scratches easier now.

Considering its coming up to its 32nd birthday, I won't be taking it back ............... though I would if I could send it back in time to 1986 for a decent painting process.


Or just send it to Argos... :)


Argos repainted a frame for me and the paint was blistering off 18 months later. Modern stove enamelling is not as durable as the old stuff and ain't worth spending a lot on.

pwa
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby pwa » 20 Jun 2018, 10:37am

Anyone got any views on the Imron paint that I've heard about?

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Vetus Ossa
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby Vetus Ossa » 20 Jun 2018, 10:46am

pwa wrote:Argos repainted a frame for me and the paint was blistering off 18 months later. Modern stove enamelling is not as durable as the old stuff and ain't worth spending a lot on.


Hmm, strange, Argos have made two frames for me and resprayed many more and I have always been very pleased with the results.
I do agree though that finishes were probably better in the olden days though, I once had a Harry Quinn and the (original) paint on it was outstanding.

PH
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby PH » 20 Jun 2018, 11:32am

pwa wrote:Anyone got any views on the Imron paint that I've heard about?

Thorn have started using this in preference to powder coating on some of their frames, I have a Mercury it Imron Grey, it isn't really old enough to judge durability (9 months), but it is a very nice deep gloss finish and the couple of times I thought it might get a scrape it hasn't.
There is possibly a difference in the finishing of new frames (Often in countries that might not have such strict environmental controls) and renovations. Even some cheap bikes seem to have a more durable finish than my recent resprays.
Last edited by PH on 20 Jun 2018, 11:37am, edited 1 time in total.

pwa
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby pwa » 20 Jun 2018, 11:35am

PH wrote:
pwa wrote:Anyone got any views on the Imron paint that I've heard about?

Thorn have started using this in preference to powder coating on some of their frames, I have a Mercury it Imron Grey, it isn't really old enough to judge durability (9 months), but it is a very nice deep gloss finish and the couple of times I thought it might get a scrape it hasn't.


You may be our long term tester. Please report back in five years.

PH
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby PH » 20 Jun 2018, 11:37am

pwa wrote:
PH wrote:
pwa wrote:Anyone got any views on the Imron paint that I've heard about?

Thorn have started using this in preference to powder coating on some of their frames, I have a Mercury it Imron Grey, it isn't really old enough to judge durability (9 months), but it is a very nice deep gloss finish and the couple of times I thought it might get a scrape it hasn't.


You may be our long term tester. Please report back in five years.

Will do :wink:

tatanab
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby tatanab » 20 Jun 2018, 11:40am

Mick F wrote:Don't you just buy bikes from Argos?
http://www.argos.co.uk/search/bikes/

Argos Racing Cycles in Bristol. I've been using them for 40 years, in which time I have had a frame built (1981) and probably 6 resprayed. They will tell you that flamboyant finishes can be a bit fragile. I've had 2 frames resprayed this year, one metallic and one a normal colour, both seem fine. A respray from 2005 has stood up well, bit that is on a seldom used machine.

fastpedaller
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Re: Stove enamellig

Postby fastpedaller » 20 Jun 2018, 11:58am

The 2 pack paints are very durable - I'm in the process of painting a GRP (glassfibre) car using 2 pack yacht paints (polyurethane), and to rub down the paint with wet/dry paper takes some effort (especially to 'get it started'). It is reassuringly tough stuff! (apparently some 2 packs on cars are 'soft' others 'hard' :)