Brake position?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
1942alexander
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Brake position?

Postby 1942alexander » 26 Jun 2018, 10:03pm

Just found this picture on another site. She has the rear brake on the seat tube side of the bridge as I had in 1959. This is the only time I've ever come across this. Was it more common than I thought it was?

BBurton.jpg


I did it because the cape roll interfered with the Mafac brake action. I wonder what her reason was. Any ideas?
BikeHJQSmall.jpg

Brucey
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Re: Brake position?

Postby Brucey » 26 Jun 2018, 10:50pm

if the cable run is to the left side of the top tube and you are running weinmann brakes, then that mounting makes sense because the cable run is smoother.

In this later shot

Image

again the brake is reversed. It is not a weinmann but again the cable run is smoother. BB had lots of other bikes inbetween times with the brake conventionally mounted so it doesn't appear to be an aero thing.

BTW I had my brake reversed on one bike simply because it allowed the mudguards to come off more easily.

cheers
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1942alexander
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Re: Brake position?

Postby 1942alexander » 26 Jun 2018, 11:07pm

Thanks for that, Brucey.
...Alex

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Mick F
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Re: Brake position?

Postby Mick F » 27 Jun 2018, 6:34am

Why aren't they all like that?

Front brake is on the trailing side of the fork bridge, but rear brake is normally on the leading side.
Why the difference?
Mick F. Cornwall

brynpoeth
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Re: Brake position?

Postby brynpoeth » 27 Jun 2018, 6:38am

Plus One for BB
Saves a bit of cable too
A brake behind the front fork would foul when turning I think
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Mick F
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Re: Brake position?

Postby Mick F » 27 Jun 2018, 6:41am

Yes, of course it would foul the steering, but if the brake is happy on the trailing side, why not on the rear as well?
Looks much neater I reckon.
Mick F. Cornwall

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iow
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Re: Brake position?

Postby iow » 27 Jun 2018, 8:25am

some of graeme obree's bikes are also set up like this.
mark

pwa
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Re: Brake position?

Postby pwa » 27 Jun 2018, 8:44am

I can't see how I could get a good cable run if I had a brake further forward. The cable already has a fairly tight curve from the cable stop on the top tube, arcing down from the bottom of the seat post. With the brake further forward that arc would have to be tighter, or start sooner. Only by a bit, but that arc is already a cause of friction.

the_twin
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Re: Brake position?

Postby the_twin » 27 Jun 2018, 8:46am

On a practical level, it must make it harder to get to the rear brake to make adjustments.

tatanab
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Re: Brake position?

Postby tatanab » 27 Jun 2018, 8:56am

brynpoeth wrote:A brake behind the front fork would foul when turning I think
Not necessarily. Any brake that uses a "noodle" like a V brake or a Tektro/TRP time trial brake can easily be mounted behind the fork crown. Indeed the TT brake is designed to be mounted there and I have 3 machines with V brakes behind the forks. That is of course modern days whereas the photographs are from times before these options were available.

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foxyrider
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Re: Brake position?

Postby foxyrider » 27 Jun 2018, 9:25am

Back when I was a lad :D we tried all sorts to get things more aero.

I certainly had a rear brake forward mounted (downside is slightly less braking power as the brake isn't braced by the stays) I have an old touring frame with forward canti mounts to avoid fouling with the rack.

At the front I did manage to set up a rear facing brake which worked okay for time trials but even my compact Galli Criterium calipers restricted the steering too much to be a permanent fixture for all round riding.

If you look at BB's bars in Brucey's picture she also has 'aero' cabling long before the levers were commercially available. I had mine set up similarly although I took it further running the cable under the bar tape much as we do now but using non aero levers - again fine for straight line riding but as it interfered with brake hood grip not ideal for road riding generally. (we are talking late 70's when aero was only just becoming a thing)

If I remember correctly, some calipers were available with either L or R cable routing. So just why did LH become the standard?

Of course the rear brake can be mounted behind the BB - usually underneath where they catch all the crap. My Airnimal has it mounted above the stays - a bit awkward to get to but works very efficiently - current brake is a Campag SR skeleton DP - other brakes may not work so well - the previous Shimano was never anywhere near as good in that location.
Convention? what's that then?
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colin54
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Re: Brake position?

Postby colin54 » 27 Jun 2018, 9:50am

This thread led me to this 1980's documentary and in depth interview with Beryl Burton which I hadn't

seen before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wTBaW6hcGw

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Mick F
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Re: Brake position?

Postby Mick F » 27 Jun 2018, 10:04am

foxyrider wrote: .............. (downside is slightly less braking power as the brake isn't braced by the stays) .............
Neither is the front, and my Campag rear brakes have never been braced by the seatstays.

Looking at the top tube cable guides on Mercian, the rear brake cable wouldn't be happy with the brake trailing behind the stays. Also, the bridge is drilled to take the Allen fitting on the front side of the bridge, but I suppose it could be made to fit.

Moulton is just weird, so the less said about that the better!

Calliper brakes are standardised nowadays to be better for folk abroad who drive on the wrong side of the road. If your front brake was on the left, the cable to the front brake wouldn't cross sides ........... ditto the rear brake cable, giving a better line and shorter cables.
Plus, LH Ergo (front gear change) would do LH brake, and RH Ergo (rear gear change) would do RH brake.

Makes sense really.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Brake position?

Postby Brucey » 27 Jun 2018, 11:14am

FWIW there are a few DP brakes that come with the cable routing in the other way; I think Brompton use one like that?

Re brake efficiency; in some caliper brakes the conventional rear mounting allows the brake blocks to twist a bit more 'toe in' as the brake is applied, which can make the brake feel a bit more positive than if the brake is mounted the other way round.

Some of this varies with how the brake is normally used (which determines the starting angle of the brake blocks). Thus a front brake is normally used hard, so is already worn to match a hard braking effort. By contrast a rear brake might be normally used to drag, or brake relatively weakly, so when it is occasionally used hard, the 'toe-in' effect may be more marked.

cheers
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pwa
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Re: Brake position?

Postby pwa » 27 Jun 2018, 12:20pm

Handily, I've had my front brake on the left since, for reasons I can't remember, I swapped them over from the normal UK way at the age of about 15, which means around 1976. I'm just habituated to it being that way now.