Knocked off bike - Insurance questions

[Slaterider]

Hi All any advise really appreciated.
I was knocked off my bike last Monday and the driver admitted fault straight away.
I was travelling at speed and the young lady pulled out right in front of me I hiot the side of her car rolled over the bonnet and landed on the other side.
There was extensive damage to my bike and kit I grazed my shoulder badly and have bruising to both wrists and knocked my head.
Ambulance and police turned up took me home and sent me to get xray. Triage checked me over and no breaks luckily.
I have had a quote from a bike shop for repairs to bike and replacement kit (helmet, ripped top etc) and emailed the quote to the girls father yesterday.

He will not pass on his insurance details even though I have requested them on four occasions and has instructed me not to contact him again.

Can I please ask if this is a legal requirement and if I can proceed by contacting police for advise?
I last spoke to the man yesterday who has received the quote and has said he needs to speak with the bike shop regarding items on the quote.
Seems odd that he will not pass on his details but he said after the accident over the phone that as his daughter was at fault he would sort everything through his insurance and not involve mine.
I thought even if he is sorting it through his insurance I still require his insurance details?
Any help would be much appreciated as finding all this a little frustrating! Thanks.

[hamster]

Legally they have to pass on the information.
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/le ... n-accident
I fear that the vehicle is uninsured and the father is attempting to conceal the matter.
You can check that here:
https://www.mib.org.uk/check-insurance-details/

Be very careful about settling like this, for example if you discover in a few weeks that you do indeed have an injury or that the repair is inadequate. I hope you are a Cycling UK member and can use the legal cover.
There is something generally fishy - it may simply be that the father is trying to conceal a young's driver's accident for fear of premium increases - but it's not a sign of honesty. Beware.

[fastpedaller]

Sounds dodgy - I would contact Police pronto!

[JamesE]

Based on my own recent experience with being knocked off: it is the insurer who should be contacting you about the quote, not the driver. It's certainly the job of the insurer, not the driver, to be quibbling over items on the quote. The father's behaviour here suggests to me that he may not have contacted the insurer and may be planning to settle out of his own pocket.

I don't know the best way to proceed but I would certainly go cautiously - you may (as I did) have suffered back or other injuries that take a while to become apparent. As suggested above, don't settle hastily.

One way to go might be to call Osbornes - who are the London Cycling Campaign's recommended solicitors - for a chat. I think technically you should be an LCC member, but they were happy to give me free advice on my case for half an hour or so without asking for a membership number or anything. (I ended up instructing them anyway...)

[Slaterider]

Thanks for the replies really appreciated.
I believe the father is trying to protect his daughter (fair enough) and is concerned about future insurance issues as she is a young driver who has had an accident.
The father was very polite on the phone at first all apologies and asking if I was okay etc but now is being very patronising and not taking me seriously at all.
He is obviously wealthy and is quite posh and I get the impression I am just an annoyance that he could do without.
The quote for repairs and accessories is 2k so maybe he is surprised by the amount and wants to doubler check with the bike shop to make sure its all above board?
He is adamant that I cannot have the insurance details.
I contacted the police so everything is on record regarding the accident and there were numerous witnesses.
TBH I just want my bike fixed but am becoming increasingly tempted to take legal action for careless driving etc!
Thanks

[thirdcrank]

If you have some entitlement to legal advice eg through membership of an organisation such as a trades union, take it.

Otherwise, you need a clear idea of what you are trying to achieve and the limits of what's possible.

If the police dealt with this it's almost certainly been finalised from their POV. Unless the insurance is somehow unclear, the days of issuing a form for the cert of ins to be produced at a police station are long gone: it's just a matter of checking their computer to ensure insurance is in order. It's relatively rare for crashes which don't involve really serious injuries to receive much police interest, even less for there to be a prosecution for careless driving, especially if the somebody seems to be raising it as tit-for-tat in relation to getting some sort of payment like this.

The driver has a duty to give your details of their insurance, but the difficulties of proving to the criminal standard that they didn't means there are relatively few prosecutions. As others have pointed out, there are ways of discovering insurance information without recourse to the police.

The only useful help for anybody in your position is in respect of injuries, which tend to attract much bigger sums in compo than does damage to a bike. Even with injuries, the lower limits have been raised since the insurance companies lobbied the former Chancellor: AFAIK, unless the claim exceeds £5K you are largely on your own.

What you don't know is whether this is just somebody bypassing an insurance claim who wants to settle without being ripped off or who is prevaricating and will gain confidence the more they fob you off. No point in trying to second guess.

Since you seem to be using the DIY route, I'd suggest getting a proper estimate for the damage or receipts for the work done and send a letter to the driver saying that's the bill and if they don't pay eg within 14 days legal action will follow. No need for any attempts at legalese, just spell out that they've caused you this loss and you are holding them responsible. Retain copies of everything. No point huffing and puffing over this. If there's a request for reasonable clarification, provide it in writing. You should soon generate some clear thinking. One possibility is that as the amount is not pocket money, they may decide an insurance claim is the right way after all.

If you don't get a reasonably prompt result, taking legal action ie through whatever they now call the small claims system is your only option. (This is what I meant about not huffing and puffing.)

[chris_suffolk]

Hi,

I had something similar about 4 years ago. I asked the police for the 3rd party insurance details, which they gave me - not sure if they are obliged to or not. When I contacted his insurer they had not been contacted by the driver (as they are required to do) but admitted liability anyway. If you have legal insurance on your house insurance, then use that to pursue the case, and as others have said, do not settle direct. You may have additional injuries or claims for compensation that you currently don't know of, and if you settle - that's the end of anything in the future - take legal advice.

[thirdcrank]

Personal injury will always be the big thing and it's easy for something to emerge later. A disability claim can easily exceed the cost of a new car, never mind the cost of repairing a bike. Only you - with the help of medical advice - know if you are injured. If it's not a personal injury claim, then in the absence of any entitlement you may already have for legal assistance eg union membership, there's not much free help available.

PS The policyholder has certain contractual obligation in connection with their policy and if they don't meet them, eg if they don't notify their insurer of a crash, then the insurer may get awkward with them. This doesn't relieve the insurer of their obligation to meet a third party claim such as yours.

I believe insurers work on a cost/benefit basis so they won't waste big money haggling over small money.

[Gannet]

If he states he is trying to cover it through his insurance then he is also technically trying to commit fraud. You need to go in hard line with supply the details or you will take it up with the police to obtain the details, as they came to the incident there will be a record of it. They are obliged to supply insurance details, driver details.

I can appreciate it may not be a case of getting a repair done that is in excess of £2K as not everyone has that much spare cash

As it states if someone is injured at the scene of an accident

Then you must:
• - Stop and remain at the scene for a reasonable period
• - Give your vehicle registration number, your name and address, and that of the vehicle owner (if different) to anyone with reasonable grounds for asking for those details
• - If you don't exchange details at the scene, you must report the accident at a police station or to a police constable as soon as you can, and in any case within 24 hours

His daughter was at fault and in charge of the car so you gave him a chance by the sound of it, you go in one last time and then go to the police and make a statement that she was involved in an accident that they attended and didn't supply, to you, the relevant details required by law and that the father is refusing to talk to you after stating he wanted to do it through his insurance. Let them deal with that little lot as I am sure the police might want to have a chat.

Let us know how this one turns out but do stress there are legal ramifications to what he is doing and you are prepared to go to the police if he insists on this course of not talking to you on the matter

[eileithyia]

I would imagine (as per other replies) police ensured there was adequate insurance cover. If they are trying to protect their insurance claim I would imagine they would be willing to settle directly with you.

Your best recourse is to get some legal advice via CTC, household insurance, trades union.... it should be free if you have any of these....
A solicitor will be able to get hold of the details, whether you want to pursue a claim for damage, and your own personaly injury is up to you.

I had a similar situation some years ago, when everytime I rang for insurance details I got the girl's mother who continually informed me she was a very busy girl, she works you know (well yes so did I until your daughter put me on the sick), she does a lot of sport and plays netball for the city (well she so did I do sport and cycled competitively for one of the city's clubs)...... got sorted eventually via CTC.

[eileithyia]

Also it is not their position to question the quotes, but an insurance loss adjustor might...... as might want alternative quotes or question.
When my dearly beloved Super Galaxy was rear-ended there was paint ruckling in front of the seat stays, and bike shop said it was a write off. It was questioned and would I salvage parts from the front of the bike..... we both sung (bike shop prop) from the same hymn sheet of lightweight alloy parts.... not worth it guv unless you can do test anaylsis as to it's safety etc......

[Slaterider]

Some great information here thank you so much really appreciate all of this.
Things are happening so hopefully will be able to update you all so others can use this advise also.
Thanks again for taking the time to advise.

[mjr]

Thanks for the replies really appreciated.
I believe the father is trying to protect his daughter (fair enough) and is concerned about future insurance issues as she is a young driver who has had an accident.

I feel for him a little but tough: what's done is done. His daughter drove crap and concealing the collision from insurers would be non-compliance under any motor insurance policy I've ever had.

TBH I just want my bike fixed but am becoming increasingly tempted to take legal action for careless driving etc!

I think it would be very unwise to undertake a private prosecution for careless driving - search for "Martin Porter" to see how even a QC couldn't make that sort of thing (albeit for dangerous driving) stick. I'd stick to getting your bike and self financially back to the situation before the crime.

[thirdcrank]

There are all sorts of contractual conditions in insurance policies, an important one being not to admit liability. None of that affects an insurance company's liability to meet proper third party claims.

It's a simple fact that the police have been reducing their involvement in the investigation of crashes, except in cases of death or serious injury. It may well be that they only attended this crash because the initial report suggested it was more serious than proved to be the case. If the police attended and took details and everything was in order, then I can't see them taking much further interest unless something emerged such as car being stolen or driver giving false details.

[rmurphy195]

First of all, it is the driver who should be contacted not a relative and as James E said its the insurer that usually quibbles about the cost not the driver or her dad.

Secondly she must have produced evidence of insurance at the time of the accident or shortly thereafter, to the police. Having said that, insurace details are online (when you tax your car the tax authoritises check that it is insured) - whterh the girl was entitled to drive it may be another matter.

Negotiations are best carried out by your own solicitor - if you are a CTC member it will cost you nowt to get in touch with thier solicitors, if you have your own insurance use it.

Ultimatley you are however claiming against the driver, who then passes the details to his/her insurer who will pay on the driver's behalf. If any other route is taken this is always suspect in one way or another. A bike that has been in the sort of collision you have been involved in will be written off, apart from maybe one or two components. Certainly the frame and forks will be scrap, and I wouldn't trust the handlebars or stem either. Cranks might be bent slightly but enough to be useless.

Personal injury - in my case the whole thing was deal with by the CTC sols (S & G) and through them I had the full and proper gamut of independent medical exams etc. and they negotiated the claim on my behalf. I claimed everything they advise d- tight down to the cost of painkillers, a walking stick, transport to and from medical appointments, the lot. Photos of clothes (including those removed with scissors at the hospital!), helmet, the bike were all supplied to the solicitor.