Custom Wheel Builders

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
amediasatex
Posts: 842
Joined: 2 Nov 2015, 12:51pm
Location: Sunny Devon! just East of the Moor

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by amediasatex »

if you have the inclination, interest and time to learn then I'd heartily recommend trying to learn how to build your own.

There is far too much mystique and hand-waving keeping the myth of wheels being hard to build alive. The physical act of lacing is nothing but procedure, the act of tensioning and truing is patience and logic, sure you get better at it the more you do, and you get a feel for when things aren't right but there's nothing inherently difficult about building normal wheels in sensible lacings.

And I say that as someone who built professionally for a number of years, for the shop I worked in, for their race team, and freelance for other shops and local racers and riders. There's no magic to wheels, they can be complicated and tricky but standard patterns with mainstream components for 'normal' wheels are essentially very easy to get to grips with.

If you want something exotic or wacky or have very extreme requirements though then it can get more complicated and it can get difficult and require more expertise. Where the wheelbuilder comes into their own though is in knowing what components work well together and for which use cases, which is just as important as the physical act of building. I'd rather have an acceptable build of appropriate components than a tip-top build of inapproriate ones. Of course ideally you want both ;-)

If you do want to learn then get reading first, Mick and others have already given you some good links, and forums offer a wealth of knowledge but I'll offer some caution... don't get too hung up on one person's opinions, a few builders held in very high esteem differ (directly contradict in some cases!) in their advice on some aspects of lacing patterns, lubrication and use of some types of component, the fact they differ doesn't make either one of them wrong, they have just formed opinions, often strong ones, and normally they can back both of them up with sound engineering and experience but they're often arguing differing over minutiae or about things which only come into play under extreme or specific uses. Heck, even some of the manufacturers differ in recommendations on how to lace their own hubs for some use so take all strong opinions with a pinch of salt :-D

If however you just want to pay someone else to do it to save time or becasue you'd rather put your confidence in someone else then I would say find a local wheelbuilder. Decent handbuilts shouldn't have any day-to-day issues but if you do have a mishap then it's far easier to be able to go to your local builder to get them sorted than having to post them (or take a long trip) back to someone a long way away, unless you have very particular requirements for something exotic then what you want is a decent builder nearby, rather than the 'best' builder on the other side of the country.

It'll also give you a chance to discuss first hand with the builder what you're actually going to use them for and allow them to size you up and recommend components accordingly, a lot of people decide they want a pair of wheels with X rims on Y hubs for example, when they would be better suited with other components, chatting to the builder gives them the opportunity to advise, you might be bang on with X and Y, but better to discuss than just order and find out later that it wasn't appropriate.

Looking for a good set of wheels


^ that suggests to me you'd benefit from such a discussion as unless you're holding back it sounds like you don't know what you actually want or need. And in what way are the current wheels lacking and need improvement in your eyes? Are we talking good wheels for racing (Climbing? TT? Crits?) good wheels for training? good wheels for audax? good wheels for commuting? heavy rider? light rider? strong rider? etc.

'Good' can mean many things to different people, it can mean light, aerodynamic, strong, stiff, repairable, long lived, pretty, or any combination thereof and with various weighting to each aspect.
markjohnobrien
Posts: 1037
Joined: 4 Oct 2007, 8:15pm

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by markjohnobrien »

Harry Rowlands is a superb wheelbuilder :D
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
Herts Audax
Posts: 53
Joined: 17 Aug 2018, 1:59pm

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by Herts Audax »

Key to a good build is being methodical and patient as you iterate through the steps. The Musson book above is a good one. Take breaks any time you feel your patience or focus going.
iandusud
Posts: 1577
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by iandusud »

amediasatex wrote:if you have the inclination, interest and time to learn then I'd heartily recommend trying to learn how to build your own.

There is far too much mystique and hand-waving keeping the myth of wheels being hard to build alive. The physical act of lacing is nothing but procedure, the act of tensioning and truing is patience and logic, sure you get better at it the more you do, and you get a feel for when things aren't right but there's nothing inherently difficult about building normal wheels in sensible lacings.

And I say that as someone who built professionally for a number of years, for the shop I worked in, for their race team, and freelance for other shops and local racers and riders. There's no magic to wheels, they can be complicated and tricky but standard patterns with mainstream components for 'normal' wheels are essentially very easy to get to grips with.

If you want something exotic or wacky or have very extreme requirements though then it can get more complicated and it can get difficult and require more expertise. Where the wheelbuilder comes into their own though is in knowing what components work well together and for which use cases, which is just as important as the physical act of building. I'd rather have an acceptable build of appropriate components than a tip-top build of inapproriate ones. Of course ideally you want both ;-)

If you do want to learn then get reading first, Mick and others have already given you some good links, and forums offer a wealth of knowledge but I'll offer some caution... don't get too hung up on one person's opinions, a few builders held in very high esteem differ (directly contradict in some cases!) in their advice on some aspects of lacing patterns, lubrication and use of some types of component, the fact they differ doesn't make either one of them wrong, they have just formed opinions, often strong ones, and normally they can back both of them up with sound engineering and experience but they're often arguing differing over minutiae or about things which only come into play under extreme or specific uses. Heck, even some of the manufacturers differ in recommendations on how to lace their own hubs for some use so take all strong opinions with a pinch of salt :-D

If however you just want to pay someone else to do it to save time or becasue you'd rather put your confidence in someone else then I would say find a local wheelbuilder. Decent handbuilts shouldn't have any day-to-day issues but if you do have a mishap then it's far easier to be able to go to your local builder to get them sorted than having to post them (or take a long trip) back to someone a long way away, unless you have very particular requirements for something exotic then what you want is a decent builder nearby, rather than the 'best' builder on the other side of the country.

It'll also give you a chance to discuss first hand with the builder what you're actually going to use them for and allow them to size you up and recommend components accordingly, a lot of people decide they want a pair of wheels with X rims on Y hubs for example, when they would be better suited with other components, chatting to the builder gives them the opportunity to advise, you might be bang on with X and Y, but better to discuss than just order and find out later that it wasn't appropriate.

Looking for a good set of wheels



^ that suggests to me you'd benefit from such a discussion as unless you're holding back it sounds like you don't know what you actually want or need. And in what way are the current wheels lacking and need improvement in your eyes? Are we talking good wheels for racing (Climbing? TT? Crits?) good wheels for training? good wheels for audax? good wheels for commuting? heavy rider? light rider? strong rider? etc.

'Good' can mean many things to different people, it can mean light, aerodynamic, strong, stiff, repairable, long lived, pretty, or any combination thereof and with various weighting to each aspect.


As someone who has professionally built thousands of wheels I can only say I couldn't have put it any better. Read the above again.
peetee
Posts: 4324
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by peetee »

+1
I have build a lot of wheels for people and it's never been without a good look at them, the condition of their bike and a good chat first.

Building your own wheels is a very satisfying thing to do. I built my first pair in 1990 and I still remember the first ride. It's a great way to personalise your bike and is just as rewarding as getting a custom frame, perhaps more so as it's something you have done yourself.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
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Mick F
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Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by Mick F »

Herts Audax wrote:Key to a good build is being methodical and patient as you iterate through the steps. The Musson book above is a good one. Take breaks any time you feel your patience or focus going.
Not read any books about wheelbuilding, but taking your time is paramount.

I tend to lace them up, put the wheel in the stand, and tighten the spokes to the same point on their threads, then go and have a cuppa.

Later, if the fancy takes me, I'll have a tweak and reverse the wheel in the stand to check for dish, and adjust accordingly re-reversing a couple or more times ................ then have another cuppa! :D

Probably the following day, I'll get back to it. No rush. Do it slowly and gently. Softly softly catchee monkey.
Mick F. Cornwall
LollyKat
Posts: 3250
Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by LollyKat »

After encouragement from my husband and this forum (thanks, Brucey) I recently did my first wheel build, replacing a worn rear rim. It was a hub gear so I didn't have to worry about dishing. We already had a Spokey, my husband bodged a basic stand from an old roof rack, and with clip-on guides and Brucey's nipple driver made from an old spoke I didn't have to buy any tools, only the excellent Musson book. Before removing the old rim I checked the spoke tensions by feel and by plucking pitch to give me an idea of what to aim for. Like Mick I took my time, and I'm delighted with the result.

I know it's not a big deal for a lot of you but I'm rather proud of myself! :D

MegRohloff-blr-sm.jpg
Brucey
Posts: 44643
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by Brucey »

you know I came across a 32h sun CR18 rim the other day and I thought of you; glad to hear you have prevailed, that is nice work!

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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The utility cyclist
Posts: 3607
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by The utility cyclist »

I've always thought about building my own wheels and then along comes a pair of new wheels for sale either through a shop or an individual at a price I could get nowhere near. Bought a pair of Pro-Lite Bortola wheels this spring for £150 from Wiggle's outlet store, originally £350 and just last week bought a pair of gunmetal grey H+Son TB14 on Bitex lightweight hubs used for a photoshoot for a very decent price.

I asked for a wheelbuild quote from cycleclinic (he who makes the Borg wheels) using my own hubs on a mismatched pair of carbon rims he was wanting to get shot of (had them for sale on ebay). All he wanted to do was sell me his top end hub totally ignoring my request, that's the problem for me, most wheelbuilders won't sell you what you want (I had a similar conversation with a very well known wheelbuilder in the North west) they won't back up their wheelbuilding skills when it comes to fewer spokes for heavier riders so frankly I wouldn't want to pay a premium for someone who doesn't trust their own work.
Now I'd rather pick up a 'new' or mint condition hand-built pair at a much reduced price without the grief of a wheelbuilder telling me they aren't suitable for xx or trying to flog me yy, or simply a factory build from a supplier who doesn't put buttock covering restrictions on their builds. :roll:
PAB855
Posts: 397
Joined: 26 Apr 2014, 3:07pm

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by PAB855 »

Worth trying on something you can afford to mess up. I used to correct minor wobbles, but have not kept up the practice so had two occasions where even guys used to doing it regularly got it wrong and both wheels had to be scrapped.
My neighbour went to a bike maintenance class and bought all the necessary equipment. He had been an engineer in the Merchant Navy. There is or was a wheelbuilder near Milton of Campsie.

Good luck
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Mick F
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Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by Mick F »

LollyKat wrote:Like Mick I took my time, and I'm delighted with the result.
I know it's not a big deal for a lot of you but I'm rather proud of myself!
Excellent!

It is a big deal, it really is. Well done! :D
Mick F. Cornwall
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11024
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by Bonefishblues »

Mick F wrote:
Herts Audax wrote:Key to a good build is being methodical and patient as you iterate through the steps. The Musson book above is a good one. Take breaks any time you feel your patience or focus going.
Not read any books about wheelbuilding, but taking your time is paramount.

I tend to lace them up, put the wheel in the stand, and tighten the spokes to the same point on their threads, then go and have a cuppa.

Later, if the fancy takes me, I'll have a tweak and reverse the wheel in the stand to check for dish, and adjust accordingly re-reversing a couple or more times ................ then have another cuppa! :D

Probably the following day, I'll get back to it. No rush. Do it slowly and gently. Softly softly catchee monkey.

Following these clues, I deduce that you were official wheelbuilder to these boys:

https://youtu.be/pbvq-kZMWIA
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by Mick F »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No.
Only done my own, and a couple of repairs for someone else.

Done for my bikes - off the top of my head - a dozen wheels.
A pair for Mrs Mick F's bike, two pairs for both my bikes still in use, plus a previous rear wheel for one of them, plus a few re-rims over the years.
Mick F. Cornwall
Brucey
Posts: 44643
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by Brucey »

it is worth mentioning that many 'modern wheels' actually are fundamentally different from classical wheels and that there is a large spectrum inbetween.

Classic wheels typically have narrow rims that don't have a deep section; these rims are fairly flexible and the rim needs lots of spokes (which can each be thin and lightweight) in order to be well supported. In a typical 32h or 36h wheel of this sort the dead weight load slackens the bottom ~four spokes only; the rim is flexible enough that it can bend over that distance (see Jobst Brandt's book for a nice picture and an explanation) Such wheels are also potentially lightweight and comfortable to ride on.

'Modern wheels' may have an enormously stiff rim (both deeper and wider) such that the service loads are spread over a longer distance in the rim. This means that you can have fewer spokes and the spokes may see about the same fatigue loads and therefore last OK. Some rims are so stiff that the dead weight load causes slight slackening in the bottom spokes and slight tightening of the uppermost spokes. Unfortunately unless said deeper rims are made from CF or something, the rims are likely to end up heavier.

Thus at a given budget, you have a choice of prioritising weight, aero, stiffness; rarely can you point at a wheelset that is superior in all respects.

All wheels flex when subjected to lateral loads when climbing or sprinting especially. The way they flex and the amount they flex is different depending on how they are made. In a classic wheel the rim deflects near the contact patch but there is not the same amount of movement in the brakes; the rim is a lot less stiff than the spoking.

However in many modern wheels the rim is a lot stiffer than the spoking and the result is that the rim can 'move as one' and brake rub with such wheels is a lot more common, even though the movement near the contact patch may not be especially severe.

Having 'not enough spokes' is currently fashionable but only an utter lunatic would warrant a lightweight minimal spoke wheelset for a heavier rider, sight unseen. Some folk just don't get out of the saddle and don't push hard on the pedals but at the same weight there are plenty of others that do. The former might get away with riding a flimsy wheelset but the latter won't.

FWIW the penchant for 'not enough spokes' is even more baffling when you consider that having a few more spokes is an excellent way of strengthening/stiffening a wheelset. A light rim (of a given size) with a few more spokes is nearly always a better wheel than a heavier rim and the same number of spokes. For example going from 28 spokes to 32 spokes is ~15% stiffer spoking, but at a cost of only ~30g. If you wanted to stiffen a ~450g rim by the same amount, but keep it about the same size, it would have to weigh about 525g, which would put it into an entirely different category.

FWIW if you plan to run 25 to 32mm tyres and you are not carrying a big load, I quite like H+Son Archetype rims for a set of 'allround' rims. 28/32 or 32/32 or (for heavier/stronger riders and/or occasional loads) 32/36 wheelsets work well. Braking surface thickness is good (for a modern rim) and they are aero enough to make a small improvement over an older box-section rim. There is very little weight penalty (vs the very lightest rims) to be had in using them and they are not so deep section that they are starting to get too heavy or too flimsy.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fastpedaller
Posts: 3436
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Custom Wheel Builders

Post by fastpedaller »

LollyKat wrote:After encouragement from my husband and this forum (thanks, Brucey) I recently did my first wheel build, replacing a worn rear rim. It was a hub gear so I didn't have to worry about dishing. We already had a Spokey, my husband bodged a basic stand from an old roof rack, and with clip-on guides and Brucey's nipple driver made from an old spoke I didn't have to buy any tools, only the excellent Musson book. Before removing the old rim I checked the spoke tensions by feel and by plucking pitch to give me an idea of what to aim for. Like Mick I took my time, and I'm delighted with the result.

I know it's not a big deal for a lot of you but I'm rather proud of myself! :D

MegRohloff-blr-sm.jpg


Well done - You don't know you can (or can't ) do somethng if you don't try.
One of my oft used sayings is "80% of achievement is attempt" :D
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