A Misguided Badge of Honour?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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100%JR
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby 100%JR » 5 Sep 2018, 1:54pm

amediasatex wrote:
Sorry train people but the car wins every time


No, it wins for that journey in that situation. Which is fine and dandy*, sounds like a great use for a car for that trip to me. What about the other thousands (millions?) of journeys that people take by car each day that would be better undertaken another way but aren’t because people have fallen into ‘default car use’?

OK.
Example two.
I live 6.9miles from work.I do 12 hour shifts 6am-6pm or 6pm-6am.There are no trains.There are no direct buses.I have to get two buses and the travel time is approx 1:20 mins each way due to the stupid bus routing system.The earliest a bus can get me to work on days is 6:45.The journey by car takes approximately 10-15mins.
I could ride to work,and do occasionally but my employer,whilst not banning cycling to work,doesn't promote it either due to the fact that we have shunters,rail wagons and outside wagons criss-crossing the yard dumping all their crap on the road so to avoid any accidents/claims they ask we don't ride on the yard.It's a mile from the gate to my Dept so I have to walk :roll:
Then there's the fact that after a 12hour night shift I just want to get home so a car it is 8)

Example three.
In 2003,three of us decided to ride the Great Glen Way and West Highland Way in reverse.Cost of Train tickets Sheffield-Inverness the Fort William-Sheffield?£150 each!!??Had no problems on the Virgin ECML train getting bikes on but trying to get on the Edinburgh-Inverness chugger,despite having booked bikes months in advance,with a jobsworth guard who insisted 2 bikes only when there was us and roughly a dozen others trying to board with bikes was another matter.Anyway the ride had to be abandoned on day three as my mate broke his wrist so we returned in 2004.We drove in two cars to Glasgow,parked one at the Airport(£25) then carried on to Inverness.We did the ride,had a night in Glasgow(as planned)drove back to inverness,picked up car 2 and returned home.Total cost was less than £200 in fuel and parking.
Car every time for me.
Trains are just too expensive,inconsistent and unreliable :roll:

I do,now I ride more road than MTB,ride directly from my door as I can be out in the Peak District in about 20-30 mins but if i want to ride in the Dales/Lakes I chuck the bike in the car and drive there,ride then drive home :mrgreen:

Airsporter1st
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Airsporter1st » 5 Sep 2018, 2:23pm

pwa wrote:I've nothing against the OP choosing to use a car. This is a cycling Forum, not an anti-car Forum (I think) so I hope he /she enjoys the excellent ride up to the Tan Hill Inn and back. But I am pretty sure there are half decent routes between Reeth and the Vale of York, possibly via Leyburn. Adds at least one hill and a lot more miles though. I can see how the shorter route starting and finishing at Reeth appeals. I've parked up and got bikes off the roof of the car there myself on one occasion.


You only need to read a few threads posted on a daily basis on here to be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

amediasatex
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby amediasatex » 5 Sep 2018, 3:07pm

ibbo68 wrote:OK....said stufff....


You're missing the point, anyone can give examples of when one type of transport is more practical than the other, but for many people they don't do the first step of thinking about it they just jump in the car as that's the default.

I'm not picking on your examples or your situation, nor am I trying to convince you not to use your car in situations where it's clearly the right tool for the job. Picking on individual examples is a distraction and pointless as there is an in-exhaustible supply of examples to support whatever side you want, this is a big picture problem.

I am (as are others) against the general increase in car use for inappropriate journeys, like the 25 people who drive into my office every day, each in their own individually occupied car, from distances ranging between 1/2 a mile and 5 miles away, in a place were we do have reasonable public transport that runs at appropriate times and at reasonable cost. heck, I'd even be happier if it became 20 cars instead of 25 by picking up colleagues along the way. Multiply that kind of reduction nationally and you get a big difference.

(Yes I realise the irony of using the above example after complaining about using examples, but I'm trying to show the kind of thing I'm talking about, and not get into a tit-for-tat game of example ping-pong)

And then there's the circular argument about supply and demand, do people use cars because the other transport options are poor, or are the public transport options now poor because people aren't using them, and so on.

I'm not anti-car any more than I'm anti-bike or anti-train. But it's an inescapable fact that personal car use is part of a huge national health problem in both primary and secondary regards.

ambodach
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby ambodach » 5 Sep 2018, 3:24pm

Every couple of weeks at least I drive a 25 mile round trip to do a 30 mile bike ride in a nice area. There are no trains and no buses and I do not feel like cycling the extra 25 miles. It would take me about another 3 hours anyway at my pace and if there is a headwind with rain then it is no pleasure and it would probably mean that I just stop cycling. A car has it’s uses.

Tangled Metal
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Tangled Metal » 5 Sep 2018, 3:44pm

What if you like driving?

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Graham
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Graham » 5 Sep 2018, 4:13pm

Stewardship of our life-support system* should be everyones' No.1 priority.

Without that*, the rest is just ephemeral trivia.

Thinks ! . . . I don't have any kids. Why should I care about anything beyond my death ?? . . . . Dunno . . .
What about your kids ?? . . .. Are you thinking about them & theirs ??

brynpoeth
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby brynpoeth » 5 Sep 2018, 5:24pm

Where may I find an anti-car forum?
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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mjr
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby mjr » 5 Sep 2018, 5:30pm

amediasatex wrote:
Sorry train people but the car wins every time


No, it wins for that journey in that situation.

And only then if you ignore all the other costs of having a car big enough to carry four people and four bikes and parking it as needed. Mine only just carries two and two, so it mainly gets used for cycling trips when there's pretty much no other way to do a ride that I really really want to do.

amediasatex wrote:Which is fine and dandy*, sounds like a great use for a car for that trip to me. What about the other thousands (millions?) of journeys that people take by car each day that would be better undertaken another way but aren’t because people have fallen into ‘default car use’?

That's the real tragedy, yes. Even those who use cars to carry bikes on journeys that are merely awkward or slightly more expensive rather than impossible or ruinous should be in favour of getting such short journeys off the roads because it would make all else quicker and cheaper.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Cugel
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Cugel » 5 Sep 2018, 6:24pm

Peter W wrote:I keep reading of 'roadies' signalling their virtue by disparaging the use of cars (meaning those who drive them I guess) which leaves me mystified. Are they restricting their riding to the limited radius of where they live, or do they have some sort of magic carpet contrivance to reach the more interesting areas?

.....
No, I refuse to hug trees and talk saving the planet gibberish where personal satisfaction and purpose in life is concerned! (I do apologise!)


Many of the cycling club ilk do take a pride in riding out to anywhere they want to go from home, often involving a 100+ mile ride. This is just part of the club tradition and culture - although these days modernity has crept into that culture in numerous ways - strava-use, gizmos-galore and even car-rides out to the further reaches.

But in my experience this desire to ride from home is about one's own preferences as nurtured by the club tradition, not a stick with which to beat and demean the habits of other cyclists. It is satisfying to complete a long hard ride entirely under one's own power.

Of course, there will also be a few big-heeds who will disparage the cycling modes of others because they feel they are go-faster mile-eaters. (Often, they aren't - at least by cycling club, Audax, CTC and other such standards).....

As to saving the planet - we're all guilty of destroying it but, like you, we are also all self-centred little skinbags going LAH LAH LAH when uncomfortable or inconvenient facts are about. Still, one might consider doing less car-damage even if it's purely out of a sense of personal economy. :-)

Cugel

Peter W
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Peter W » 5 Sep 2018, 7:15pm

Sadly, so many are unable to see my point.

1) There are no trains to the Dales centre at Reeth, which is 35 miles from my home. I do not care to add another 70 miles to my riding from there

2) Ambodach clearly made the relevant point.

3) The route I've just ridden was a circular one (Tan Hill - Kirby Stephen - back over the moor tops to Reeth via Muker) with a many steep climbs. Depending on how I feel on any given ride I can easily increase the milage to knackering proportions by adding an extra pass or two. After such rides, dripping with sweat from all the climbing, and charging the last few miles I certainly would NOT relish having to sit and wait for a train ride home, with no change of clothes or eats, even supposing there happened to be room for the bike which would by no means be a certainty! (As I stated, load up the car, relax and eat and drink, and pleasantly pootle off home in luxury.

4) Half my journeys there are to ride the mountain bike for as far and as long as I feel like, (Plenty of big climbs and descents which are easily linked up.)

5) It is not my first duty to save the planet. That is simply be self delusion on the part of those who imagine their contribution is doing so. For example, we in our country produce around just 2% of the worlds rapidly growing atmospheric CO2 production. Anything we do, compared to what the rest of the world is doing, would be virtually irrelevant. It is up to the governments of the world powers to take action with which we would all have to comply equally. Acting alone is a nonsense.

It may be that transport in the future will move to all electric, provided the necessary recharging power could be produced by non polluting means. (Nuclear is the only current feasible option there.) Then, I will use an electric car provided it could do what my present very low emmision petrol super mini can. That will be the acid test!

thirdcrank
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Sep 2018, 7:20pm

Peter W wrote:Sadly, so many are unable to see my point. ...


What I'm not clear about is why you felt the need to make it. Has somebody been teasing you?

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Graham
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Graham » 5 Sep 2018, 7:30pm

Peter W wrote: It is up to the governments of the world powers to take action with which we would all have to comply equally.

A bit of a problem with democracy here. We all tend to vote for our own short-term interests.

Peter W wrote:Acting alone is a nonsense.

The aggregation of billions of personal decisions is our only hope.

It is very convenient to consider the effects of our personal decisions as irrelevant.

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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Peter W » 5 Sep 2018, 7:54pm

No Thirdcrank,, but I take the future of the human race seriously, and I do keep up to date with climate change peer reviewed research. (Geology was my subject which helps put things in long term perspective.)

I disagree Graham. Individual action is not effective. World population growth has been radically out of control for years now. Study the figures (such as exist) for previous centuries , and the present result is scary. In 1955, it was estimated that 2 people died every second but 3 people were born every second. The calculated figure now is simply terrifying, yet nobody has any idea what to do about it! So forgive me if I say that individual action is pointless, in the face of such a runaway situation. Any action an individual takes will be overrun by the sheer mass of people all demanding a share in the planets resources, and economic wellbeing!

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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby pwa » 5 Sep 2018, 8:25pm

And someone who flies to far flung corners of the world for their hols and never drives can easily outdo a moderate car user for climate damage. There is a lot of hypocrisy from people who think they are green but fly.

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horizon
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby horizon » 5 Sep 2018, 8:29pm

Airsporter1st wrote:
pwa wrote:I've nothing against the OP choosing to use a car. This is a cycling Forum, not an anti-car Forum (I think) so I hope he /she enjoys the excellent ride up to the Tan Hill Inn and back. But I am pretty sure there are half decent routes between Reeth and the Vale of York, possibly via Leyburn. Adds at least one hill and a lot more miles though. I can see how the shorter route starting and finishing at Reeth appeals. I've parked up and got bikes off the roof of the car there myself on one occasion.


You only need to read a few threads posted on a daily basis on here to be forgiven for thinking otherwise.


I'm anti-car, even though I use one. I think it's the only logical position to take up in 2018 in the western world. It's a reaction against the out-of-control pro-car situation that we find ourselves in. A few adjustments and I could find myself being very accepting of car use. But not as things stand.

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