A Misguided Badge of Honour?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
pwa
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby pwa » 5 Sep 2018, 8:44pm

horizon wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:
pwa wrote:I've nothing against the OP choosing to use a car. This is a cycling Forum, not an anti-car Forum (I think) so I hope he /she enjoys the excellent ride up to the Tan Hill Inn and back. But I am pretty sure there are half decent routes between Reeth and the Vale of York, possibly via Leyburn. Adds at least one hill and a lot more miles though. I can see how the shorter route starting and finishing at Reeth appeals. I've parked up and got bikes off the roof of the car there myself on one occasion.


You only need to read a few threads posted on a daily basis on here to be forgiven for thinking otherwise.


I'm anti-car, even though I use one. I think it's the only logical position to take up in 2018 in the western world. It's a reaction against the out-of-control pro-car situation that we find ourselves in. A few adjustments and I could find myself being very accepting of car use. But not as things stand.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=124654

My position on car use is not the opposite to yours, but I am less concerned about the negatives and more appreciative of the positives. And there are positives. Maybe you live in a city and I don't, and maybe the roads you cycle are busier than the ones I use. There must be a reason for our different perspectives.

keyboardmonkey
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby keyboardmonkey » 5 Sep 2018, 8:58pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Peter W wrote:Sadly, so many are unable to see my point. ...


What I'm not clear about is why you felt the need to make it. Has somebody been teasing you?

Yes, that's what I was thinking. If I lived in the Vale of York, and I was able to, I wouldn't hesitate to use a car to take a bike somewhere far more exciting, interesting, challenging, safer and fun to ride. In fact, I live on the pan-flat Holderness plain in East Yorkshire and there are times I take my bike in the car to the Yorkshire Wolds just to miss out the dull bits in between, especially when time and fitness are in short supply. But, yeah, I'm not sure I would feel the need to kick off a thread such as this one. Each to their own, mind.
Last edited by keyboardmonkey on 5 Sep 2018, 9:03pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mjr
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby mjr » 5 Sep 2018, 8:59pm

Peter W wrote:Depending on how I feel on any given ride I can easily increase the milage to knackering proportions by adding an extra pass or two. After such rides, dripping with sweat from all the climbing, and charging the last few miles I certainly would NOT relish having to sit and wait for a train ride home, with no change of clothes or eats, even supposing there happened to be room for the bike which would by no means be a certainty! (As I stated, load up the car, relax and eat and drink, and pleasantly pootle off home in luxury.

Driving after a "knackering" ride without a decent rest, possibly a sleep, seems unwise, dangerous and anti-social.

Also not sure why using a train prevents eating or even changing clothes. There may not be buffet cars as often, but there's often station ones or trollies.
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brynpoeth
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby brynpoeth » 5 Sep 2018, 9:03pm

mjr wrote:..
..
Driving after a "knackering" ride without a decent rest, possibly a sleep, seems unwise, dangerous and anti-social.
..
..

+1!
I understand North Yorkshire Constabulary is hot on traffic law enforcement :wink:
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pwa
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby pwa » 5 Sep 2018, 9:41pm

mjr wrote:
Peter W wrote:Depending on how I feel on any given ride I can easily increase the milage to knackering proportions by adding an extra pass or two. After such rides, dripping with sweat from all the climbing, and charging the last few miles I certainly would NOT relish having to sit and wait for a train ride home, with no change of clothes or eats, even supposing there happened to be room for the bike which would by no means be a certainty! (As I stated, load up the car, relax and eat and drink, and pleasantly pootle off home in luxury.

Driving after a "knackering" ride without a decent rest, possibly a sleep, seems unwise, dangerous and anti-social.

Also not sure why using a train prevents eating or even changing clothes. There may not be buffet cars as often, but there's often station ones or trollies.

I'm pretty sure I could combine a return car trip from the Vale of York to Reeth with a cycled loop up to Tan Hill without getting so knackered that my driving would be affected. It could be a factor with longer rides and longer drives. But not in the example given.

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Sum
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Sum » 5 Sep 2018, 10:24pm

brynpoeth wrote:Where may I find an anti-car forum?


I couldn't resist searching for it. I genuinely laughed out aloud when the first hit in the search engine came up as the Cycling UK forum. :D

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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby PH » 5 Sep 2018, 10:31pm

Sum wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Where may I find an anti-car forum?


I couldn't resist searching for it. I genuinely laughed out aloud when the first hit in the search engine came up as the Cycling UK forum. :D

That's how search engines work, this is a website you visit so it's near the top of the search list. Try clearing your browsing history and cookies and search again :?

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Sum
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Sum » 5 Sep 2018, 10:54pm

Nope, this forum still comes up in the first hit (at least for that particular search). Try following your own advice if you don't believe me. :D

Peter W
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Peter W » 5 Sep 2018, 11:11pm

I despair!

Anyone who thinks that being physically knackered (i.e. unable to pedal up anymore hills) equates to mental incompetence to drive a car (It doesn't have to be pedalled!) is beyond reasoning with.

As for not being sure why using a train prevents eating or even changing clothes - BECAUSE THERE IS NO RAILWAY LINE!! (And even if there was why on earth would I choose the discomfort of heaving up all those huge hills a full change of clothing, when I can have my own car to return to! What the blazes would using the train instead, be proving?)
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby meic » 5 Sep 2018, 11:21pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Peter W wrote:Sadly, so many are unable to see my point. ...


What I'm not clear about is why you felt the need to make it. Has somebody been teasing you?

Possibly it is the subconscious emergence of a conscience.

We all know (even the deniers deep down) that we are messing up the planet with our use of fossil fuels.
To use them for frivolous reasons should be something that all of us avoid doing and should feel guilty about doing.
Yes, I too use the car for attending some rides but I am not proud or even defensive about this selfish behaviour. I just do it because that is the way of the modern world and it is a hard cycle to break out of for all the reasons that others have given.
Yma o Hyd

Peter W
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Peter W » 6 Sep 2018, 8:15am

A final word before bowing out. I agree Moic on emergence of conscience and the fact that we are all aware (no denier - I have a scientific background and keep up with research) that we are messing up the planet with our use of fossil fuels. That use of them is now the reality of worldwide modern way of life, and has gone beyond (as any critically thinking person must realise) being reversible. The absolute need now is for an ever growing continuous and reliable supply of power, to fuel technology and maintain economic advancement. Fossil fuels are currently the only such totally reliable and adequate power source to maintain things.

Individual gesture actions may soothe some peoples consciences, but they will not solve the problem. It is deceitful for people to hide from world reality by themselves using, and living within, that same economic and technological advancement which gives them the freedom of action (from toil to sustain life) to enjoy their bikes, (non necessary toys in some eyes) and pleasure riding, while pretending to themselves they are not a part of the problem.

In the absence of any new discovery (Star Treck type fictional harnessing of nuclear fusion for unlimited supply of totally green power) nothing of which is currently on the horizon, the world is stuck with what we now must have - reliable fossil fuel power sources, so my conscience is clear in that my small low emmision modern super mini car gives me the freedom necessary to indulge in my lifestyle, which economic advancement has given me the leisure time to enjoy.

Those who disagree, come up with a sensible alternative, and the world may (or probably will not) listen!

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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 6 Sep 2018, 9:00am

Peter W wrote:As for not being sure why using a train prevents eating or even changing clothes - BECAUSE THERE IS NO RAILWAY LINE!!


Where you live is - usually - a personal choice. I chose to live somewhere (rural) with a station.

I don't have a problem with people choosing to drive cars (indeed, I drive occasionally), but they need to pay a fair price to account for the externalities of that choice. At present they don't: car transport is subsidised by the Government and getting more so.
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brynpoeth
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby brynpoeth » 6 Sep 2018, 9:05am

Use the Wensleydale Railway!
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Cugel
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Cugel » 6 Sep 2018, 9:24am

Peter W wrote:......

In the absence of any new discovery (Star Treck type fictional harnessing of nuclear fusion for unlimited supply of totally green power) nothing of which is currently on the horizon, the world is stuck with what we now must have - reliable fossil fuel power sources, so my conscience is clear in that my small low emmision modern super mini car gives me the freedom necessary to indulge in my lifestyle, which economic advancement has given me the leisure time to enjoy.

Those who disagree, come up with a sensible alternative, and the world may (or probably will not) listen!


Hmmmm - here's an alternative - change your lifestyle to make a small contribution to the reduction in planet degradation. Why do you need to "indulge" to have a meaningful lifestyle? That's just a bad habit, the car driving. It's one we humans have only had available for a tiny part of our evolutionary history, which history may well be vastly foreshortened by the filthy things.

Ha! Easy for me to say, a car-owning-driving fellow, eh!?

Well, unlike you I never use it to go to novel starting points to ride my bike. or for any other trivial purpose. I just practice at cycling more miles in one go. In fact, although the car is used occasionally, it stands on the drive for many days at a time unused. I changed my lifestyle to avoid using it, see? Strangely, I feel the car-poor lifestyle is rather more pleasant, satisfying and variable. I have a shopping bike. It feels much more like hunter-gathering. :-)

Just now we are moving, the lady wide et moi, to a new house that's been built in an eco-friendly fashion, with ground source heating and solar panels, not to mention it's own water supply. These will not only cost nothing (the electricity generated from the panels runs the pumps and the excess is sold to the lecky board) but don't burn fossil fuels.

You may think all this a drop in the ocean .. and it is. However, the ocean is made of drops..... Perhaps you could consider adding your own wee drip to see orf the tragedy of the commons?

Also, you will get better at cycling.

Cugel

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mjr
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby mjr » 6 Sep 2018, 9:40am

Peter W wrote:I despair!

Anyone who thinks that being physically knackered (i.e. unable to pedal up anymore hills) equates to mental incompetence to drive a car (It doesn't have to be pedalled!) is beyond reasoning with.

Anyone who thinks that being physically knackered (i.e. unable to pedal up anymore hills) doesn't equates to incompetence to drive a car (It still requires concentration!) is beyond reasoning with. Driving tired is compared to driving drunk and is thought to be a widespread but underreported contributory factor in crashes. There's a summary at http://www.roadsafetyobservatory.com/Review/10061


As for not being sure why using a train prevents eating or even changing clothes - BECAUSE THERE IS NO RAILWAY LINE!! (And even if there was why on earth would I choose the discomfort of heaving up all those huge hills a full change of clothing, when I can have my own car to return to! What the blazes would using the train instead, be proving?)

Not so much proving anything as having more time and money by not driving, fuelling and maintaining a big car. No need to heave clothing as there's often somewhere to leave it or one can pack light enough it's not heaving. And maybe ride somewhere that has transport links sometimes - surely not every ride needs to be inaccessible except by car.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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