A Misguided Badge of Honour?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
rmurphy195
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby rmurphy195 » 6 Sep 2018, 9:54pm

Never mind Peter,you've just been nobbled by the usual suspects.

Here's an interesting thought - I've never visited any "Walking" forums , however I wouldn't expect that walkers would be nobbled due to their method of transport to wherever their favourite walks are when they want to get away from their own locality.

Like cyclists, walkers go to a destination which may or may not be served by suitable bus/train services, explore the area under their own steam, then go back home.

Would we expect them to walk to their favourite spots, just because they maybe walk to work every day? I think not.
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

Richard D
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Richard D » 6 Sep 2018, 10:16pm

Si wrote:Well, it has to be said, if you start out with "I keep reading of 'roadies' signalling their virtue" then what do you expect. You insult people who have different beliefs to you and get upset when they explain how those beliefs are legitimate to them and not an attempt to "virtue signal". I have to say I am heartened by the polite response you've received by most....I know plenty of fora where the response would have, sadly, been along the lines of "go do one, you troll".


Quite. There are times when I think that I ought to cycle to the start of a ride, and times when that’s completely impractical and the bike has to spend a bit of time on the roof of the car if I want to participate in that particular ride. I’ve not encountered any odd attitudes of "you’re not a proper cyclist if you got here by car" from anyone (and I’d struggle to regard it as virtue signalling if someone else got to the start of the ride by bike). I use the car once or twice a week, would prefer to use it less, but that’s not practical. Nobody accuses me of trying to kill the planet, as far as I can tell. Either the people I know are less idiotic than those the OP seems to have encountered, or I have a thicker skin; it’s more likely however that I’m just not hypersensitive, and reading things into people's comments that simply aren’t meant.

On the topic of driving after a ride, I did 120miles last summer and then jumped in the car to do another 200. I felt fine the whole journey. I’ve felt a lot more tired travelling a fraction of the distance after a dull day at work. I dare say on a different day I might have felt wiped out. And - FWVLIW - I slept through the whole of the next day :D

jgurney
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby jgurney » 6 Sep 2018, 11:28pm

ibbo68 wrote: Sorry train people but the car wins every time


It will sometimes be convenient, faster or cheaper, especially if it is kept for another reason and all the non-fuel costs are attributed to that use, and especially if more than one person is travelling. Claiming it is so "every time" is hardly accurate.

I doubt that a car could have taken me (with bike) from leaving central London at 5:30 pm to being in York at 7:25, nor got me from London to Inverness overnight ready to start riding in the morning.

I don't think any train journey I have made taking a bike with me has had a fare which worked out costing me more than the 45p per mile which HMRC regard as a fair car mileage rate for under 10000 miles/year.

If HMRC's rates are realistic, the 206 miles from London to York costs a driver £92.70. The last two train tickets for the same journey I bought came to £55.00 (Friday evening) and £23.60 (mid-pm Sunday). In both cases the journey time is a few mins under 2 hours, which no law-abiding driver could possibly match.

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meic
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby meic » 6 Sep 2018, 11:39pm

If HMRC's rates are realistic

I dont know about realistic but being misinterpreted. They take into account all of the overhead costs which you have to pay whether or not you use the car.
If you already have the car sat on the drive, you only occur additional running costs by using it for the trip which could be nearer to 15p/m.
Yma o Hyd

jgurney
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby jgurney » 7 Sep 2018, 12:05am

meic wrote:
If HMRC's rates are realistic

I dont know about realistic but being misinterpreted.


They take into account all of the overhead costs which you have to pay whether or not you use the car. If you already have the car sat on the drive, you only occur additional running costs by using it for the trip which could be nearer to 15p/m.


Yes, obviously it would, I never suggested otherwise. Where is the misinterpretation?

In my case I don't currently have a car sat on the drive (or anywhere). Since if I did buy one it would be mainly used for trips like London to York, it's total costs, not just marginal costs per extra mile, would have to work out at a lot less than 45p/mile to cost less than the train, even if I was willing to put up with the longer journey times plus the extra effort of driving. I sometimes hire vans when I have a lot to carry, and if I were to buy a car I suspect I would then, having paid for said car, find myself making double car trips to save the cost of the vans, thus spending twice as much time achieving the same outcome and probably not saving much money.

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meic
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby meic » 7 Sep 2018, 12:26am

It is rather fortunate that your journeys are from London train station to York train station.
Many of us are not so well served and have to add in the travel to and from the nearest train stations at each end.
My next ride will start in a village 21 miles from the nearest station and I live 9 miles from the nearest station (coincidentally the same station) or I could just drive/cycle directly 18 miles. Admittedly the train journey would be cheaper than driving. :lol:

Oh, the trains dont actually run Sunday morning before the ride so I would have to arrange an overnight stay.
Yma o Hyd

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TrevA
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby TrevA » 7 Sep 2018, 8:00am

I quite often do a ride in Derbyshire, starting from Cromford and I drive to the start. There are usually around 10 of us. It's too far to ride out and then do a hilly fifty miler, unless you are super fit. And it's not a very nice ride anyway, pretty urban most of the way. Yes, there is a train service and one of our regulars does travel there by train, but imagine 10 of us all turning up to get on the train? There's only 1 train an hour and it's only 1 or 2 carraiges.

Trains are ok if there's just one or two of you, but no good for larger groups.
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resus1uk
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby resus1uk » 7 Sep 2018, 8:04am

Currently the local Cross Country rail service on the Matlock line out of Derby is closed for the Derby Station upgrade. Replaced by a bus service along the A6. I wanted to avoid using the car to see Matlock Bath illuminations (as the parking is so bad), then cycle home, all downhill. Nothing stops at my local station. No easy way to get to the Peak District trails until the work is done. Age & disablity preclude cycling up the A6. A trip to London with a Brompton has to start with a car drive to Newark or Nottingham so better to drive all the way.

pwa
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby pwa » 7 Sep 2018, 8:14am

In the world of Audax I have encountered people who cycle to and from Audax rides, sometimes over considerable distances. I have know people do an Audax that is shorter than the combined there-and-back ride to get to it. But their reason for doing that usually has little or nothing to do with environmental stuff or concern about cars. It is because they enjoy getting the miles in, possibly in training for a super-long event.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 7 Sep 2018, 8:20am

pwa wrote:In the world of Audax I have encountered people who cycle to and from Audax rides, sometimes over considerable distances. I have know people do an Audax that is shorter than the combined there-and-back ride to get to it. But their reason for doing that usually has little or nothing to do with environmental stuff or concern about cars. It is because they enjoy getting the miles in, possibly in training for a super-long event.

But they are still doing the right thing, for whatever reason, +1
Nice one Cyrille, nice one son..
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pwa
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby pwa » 7 Sep 2018, 8:26am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:In the world of Audax I have encountered people who cycle to and from Audax rides, sometimes over considerable distances. I have know people do an Audax that is shorter than the combined there-and-back ride to get to it. But their reason for doing that usually has little or nothing to do with environmental stuff or concern about cars. It is because they enjoy getting the miles in, possibly in training for a super-long event.

But they are still doing the right thing, for whatever reason, +1

It is your view that the right thing means not using the car, but not mine. I think it best to resist using the car for trivial reasons when a practical alternative is available, but I don't think that includes cycling from Cardiff to Brecon to do an Audax from Brecon, then cycling back to Cardiff is "doing the right thing". It is a choice. I'd use the car for that.

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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby PH » 7 Sep 2018, 12:08pm

rmurphy195 wrote:Never mind Peter,you've just been nobbled by the usual suspects.

I think that's just the sort of disparaging comment that the opening post was complaining about.
Here's an interesting thought - I've never visited any "Walking" forums , however I wouldn't expect that walkers would be nobbled due to their method of transport to wherever their favourite walks are when they want to get away from their own locality.
Like cyclists, walkers go to a destination which may or may not be served by suitable bus/train services, explore the area under their own steam, then go back home.

The walking groups I've been involved with make efforts to minimise car use by choosing starting places accessible by public transport and encouraging car sharing.
I've chosen to live without a car and I believe there is some virtue in that beyond how it benefits me personally. I've been known to encourage others to consider it, questioned the assumptions that I think are wrong (Of which there are several in the OP) and extolled the benefits. I've never felt the need to tell anyone else what they should do, or that their choices are wrong, or be insulting.

pwa
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby pwa » 7 Sep 2018, 12:17pm

PH wrote:
rmurphy195 wrote:Never mind Peter,you've just been nobbled by the usual suspects.

I think that's just the sort of disparaging comment that the opening post was complaining about.
Here's an interesting thought - I've never visited any "Walking" forums , however I wouldn't expect that walkers would be nobbled due to their method of transport to wherever their favourite walks are when they want to get away from their own locality.
Like cyclists, walkers go to a destination which may or may not be served by suitable bus/train services, explore the area under their own steam, then go back home.

The walking groups I've been involved with make efforts to minimise car use by choosing starting places accessible by public transport and encouraging car sharing.
I've chosen to live without a car and I believe there is some virtue in that beyond how it benefits me personally. I've been known to encourage others to consider it, questioned the assumptions that I think are wrong (Of which there are several in the OP) and extolled the benefits. I've never felt the need to tell anyone else what they should do, or that their choices are wrong, or be insulting.

That's it I suppose. Tell others what you think, when asked, but don't preach.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 7 Sep 2018, 3:17pm

One reason one might drive to cycle is because of the danger of motor traffic

Many of the motons are drive-cyclists :(
Nice one Cyrille, nice one son..
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on 49" fixed
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

rmurphy195
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Re: A Misguided Badge of Honour?

Postby rmurphy195 » 8 Sep 2018, 12:18pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:One reason one might drive to cycle is because of the danger of motor traffic

Many of the motons are drive-cyclists :(


Or in my case, using the car to get to a quiet spot that I regularly cycle to, whilst recovering (physically and mentally) from a collision with a tipper truck.

Or in my friends case age and infinity prevent his cycling to his favoured spots.

Or in my relatives case, taking their 2 year old out in the bike trailer to the likes of the camel, tarka or peak district trails (all a long way from Brum), carrying bikes/trailer etc in/on the car.

I don't feel that any of us deserve to be referred to in derogatory terms, even if its claimed to be in a humorous way.
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !