Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Cugel
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cugel » 9 Sep 2018, 6:05pm

nirakaro wrote:Advice I was once given -
The only advice that's ever welcome is advice that's been asked for.


Are we to assume that the only advice worth hearing is that which is "welcome"? Tell that to the sergeant-major. Or the traffic policeman; or a teacher (even of 10 year-olds); or any legitimate authority tasked with giving unwelcome "advice" to the uneducated or sundry inadequates and miscreants.

But perhaps you believe that within an entirely civilian context, those who give unwelcome advice are always to be rejected, vilified, ignored or otherwise have their advice rejected? Alas, the best advice is so very often the advice we don't want to hear, as we go about in our comfy bubbles shouting LAH LAH LAH.

For example, I might advise you not to vote for Boris. This might be unwelcome advice from your point of view but it would be very good advice in as much as it would very probably be against your interest (or anyone's except BoJo's) to vote for the dangerous buffoon. I can think of several more examples, including: "It's better all 'round for people not to live in their comfy bubbles but to listen to sometimes difficult facts and alternate viewpoints".

I would give this advice to that Trump but would he listen!? No, he'd be coming over here, twittering in the forum about strangers telling him off. Mind, he just a 10 year-old so perhaps he'd get some sympathy? :-)

Cugel

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Xilter
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Xilter » 9 Sep 2018, 6:10pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Xilter wrote:I did no such thing as to threaten an elderly man at all. Simply that the thought would have crossed my mind. To hav3 a thought and then reject it is not in any way assault.

As for the woman. If she will insist on belittling children for trying to be polite I see no wrong in telling her off

You could have expressed it differently :?
I rather like the suggestion to put ones h****t where the sun doesnae shine, surely that is obviously meant "humorously"? Or maybe not? :?


I did not mention putting their head where the sun don’t shine.
I said they needed their head removed from where the sun don’t shine.
My poor poor bottom

brynpoeth
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Sep 2018, 6:14pm

For good or ill, I cannae vote for Boris, do not need advice on that, sorry :wink:

My experience is that as I have matured (got older) I have certainly gained experience and wisdom but I am also open to advice

What happened to the time when certain citizens were respected, village bobby, teacher, vicar?
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nirakaro
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby nirakaro » 9 Sep 2018, 7:23pm

Cugel wrote:
nirakaro wrote:Advice I was once given -
The only advice that's ever welcome is advice that's been asked for.


Are we to assume that the only advice worth hearing is that which is "welcome"?

Cugel

Did I say that?

brynpoeth
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Sep 2018, 7:33pm

Interfering stranger?

"A stranger is a friend one has not met yet" (Irish proverb) :wink:
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Sep 2018, 10:44pm

I'm with the OP and many others on how I interpret things, ie inappropriate and unwelcome comment from someone his son has never met before.

The other point I would make is that clothing is up to the individual. It is no more your right to comment on my clothing choice than mine too comment on yours. In fact if you do it on twitter to the wrong person you might get a backlash song the lines of body shaming type of allegations.

As I see it the young lad is a road cyclist who is involved in an active cycling club for kids, who probably gets involved in club runs / races and is proud of being in his cycling club.

Heck I'm like the OP father too in that I'm proud to have a son who's keen on cycling but he's too young for his local youth cycling club (almost 6 years old but club only takes 7+ years). When / if he joins his local club I'll get him a team kit if he wants one. He already has his cycling clothing (a cycling ss top and normal kids shorts that he calls his cycling shorts). Won't cycle without them except to school. BTW the school had a cycle to school week (part of a national campaign I think where schools compete to record as many journeys by bike as possible). Our son did not need to change his habits because he already cycled to school each day, only 5.

IMHO a kid who is into cycling as a sport (assumption based on club kit) has every right to wear the kit he wears with the club on his own rides. If clubs insist of helmet use, especially with kids under 12 which I believe has a degree of evidence supporting it and in some countries its mandated by law, it is their right and choice. If a member of such a club chooses to continue wearing the helmet on his own rides that is their right and not a brain washing process.

BTW in case you hadn't guessed I believe it is a good thing to hear about a 10 year old cycling for a hobby instead of PlayStation games and never going out. If you want to make any comment to such a kid make sure the patent is present and only be positive and supportive. IMHO negativity like trying to impose your views on him is to be avoided lest you discourage a potential lifetime cyclist at such a young age. And that's not a snowflake type thing going on it's purely about positivity being better than negativity.

pete75
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby pete75 » 10 Sep 2018, 2:26am

Cugel wrote:
nirakaro wrote:Advice I was once given -
The only advice that's ever welcome is advice that's been asked for.


Are we to assume that the only advice worth hearing is that which is "welcome"?
Cugel


That's not what nirako said.

Joe Sprocket
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Joe Sprocket » 10 Sep 2018, 8:40am

An adult lecturing a 10 year old boy (about anything) while his parents weren't there, ......sounds like the chap has a very small winkle to me.

ibbo68 wrote:Right from the off I don't want this to start a helmet debate.I have thought for a few days about posting it but I am quite annoyed.
Last week we were on a Family Holiday in beautiful North Wales not far from Mallwyd.Having taken our bikes I took my son over to Lake Vyrnwy to do a few circuits around the Lake.In the end we did three laps(2 clockwise and 1 anti-clockwise).We had a cafe stop after lap 2(22 miles)and this is where the point of this thread comes in.
We pulled up to the cafe,leant the bikes up against the wall and I sat the lad down at the table.I went in to order.I'd noticed an elderly couple on (possibly)touring bikes with panniers etc as we entered the seating area and as I was waiting to be served i noticed the man chatting to my son.I just presumed he was talking cycling.I ordered and went to rejoin my son who looked a bit upset.When i asked him what was wrong he said "that man has just told me off for wearing my cycling kit and helmet" :!: I thought my lad had misunderstood so went to have a chat.I can recall the entire conversation and could quote it but basically this bloke had took it upon himself to lecture a 10 year old boy about not having to "dress like Bradley Wiggins" to enjoy riding his bike.He also admitted to telling my son it was absolutely fine to ride without a helmet :evil: I kept as calm as I could and informed this chap that whether or not my son wears a helmet is my decision and he wears his CC clothing as he likes it and he races for that CC(where he has to wear a helmet).There then followed a brief(few minutes) debate but it was all quite calm with no raised voices.
Is it a generation thing?I don't want to have a dig at Touring cyclists or older cyclists but this has never happened on any Cafe stop with Road/Club cyclists or MTBers we've met.Generally the chat is about the route he's doing or distance etc.
If the person involved is a member on here then please feel free to put your point across but this really took the shine off the ride for my son and he was very quiet on the last lap :|

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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby nirakaro » 10 Sep 2018, 8:54am

Cugel wrote:
nirakaro wrote:Advice I was once given -
The only advice that's ever welcome is advice that's been asked for.


Are we to assume that the only advice worth hearing is that which is "welcome"? Tell that to the sergeant-major. Or the traffic policeman; or a teacher (even of 10 year-olds); or any legitimate authority tasked with giving unwelcome "advice" to the uneducated or sundry inadequates and miscreants.
Cugel

I think you make my point perfectly. Advice from those quarters, however well-intentioned, however wise, is rarely likely to be welcome. And consequently, is rarely likely to be attended to or followed, unless it's accompanied by the threat of some sanction - in which case it's not really advice, but an instruction disguised as advice. I guess that's why you put the word in quotes.

slowster
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby slowster » 10 Sep 2018, 9:27am

Joe Sprocket wrote:An adult lecturing a 10 year old boy (about anything) while his parents weren't there, ......sounds like the chap has a very small winkle to me.

Nah, just staggeringly poor social skills and a complete lack of insight and self awareness of how they might come across. Qualities which are disproportionately represented amongst touring cyclists, as evidenced by some of those on this thread defending the silly old fool's behaviour.

I agree with the advice to use it as a learning and discussion opportunity with the lad. Knowing how to deal with all sorts of different people and situations is a huge life skill (cf. the silly old fool) which will stand your son in great stead. You could discuss ways he might respond very neutrally to someone in such a situation without engaging or encouraging the conversation, and even ways how he might slyly take the mickey when he is aware and confident enough to judge the audience and the situation. Try role playing and make a game of it, e.g. at the breakfast table have a pretend conversation where he has to respond in a particular way (e.g. non-committal, uninterested, interested etc.) to what you say, and you say increasingly daft and outrageous things.

brynpoeth
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby brynpoeth » 10 Sep 2018, 9:32am

slowster wrote:
Joe Sprocket wrote:An adult lecturing a 10 year old boy (about anything) while his parents weren't there, ......sounds like the chap has a very small winkle to me.

Nah, just staggeringly poor social skills and a complete lack of insight and self awareness of how they might come across. Qualities which are disproportionately represented amongst touring cyclists
..

Really? :?
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby bovlomov » 10 Sep 2018, 9:37am

brynpoeth wrote:
slowster wrote:
Joe Sprocket wrote:An adult lecturing a 10 year old boy (about anything) while his parents weren't there, ......sounds like the chap has a very small winkle to me.

Nah, just staggeringly poor social skills and a complete lack of insight and self awareness of how they might come across. Qualities which are disproportionately represented amongst touring cyclists
..

Really? :?

If there was an organisation for touring cyclists, its forum would now be buzzing with indignation.

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Cugel
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cugel » 10 Sep 2018, 9:59am

nirakaro wrote:
Cugel wrote:
nirakaro wrote:Advice I was once given -
The only advice that's ever welcome is advice that's been asked for.


Are we to assume that the only advice worth hearing is that which is "welcome"?

Cugel

Did I say that?


Perhaps your remark proposed that ..... or perhaps it was just an observation. This is why my own response was a question, not a statement. :-)

Cugel, happy to chop logic and twist a semantic or two if you wish.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Tangled Metal » 10 Sep 2018, 10:00am

bovlomov wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
slowster wrote:Nah, just staggeringly poor social skills and a complete lack of insight and self awareness of how they might come across. Qualities which are disproportionately represented amongst touring cyclists
..

Really? :?

If there was an organisation for touring cyclists, its forum would now be buzzing with indignation.


Or acceptance/agreement.

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Cugel
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cugel » 10 Sep 2018, 10:02am

Tangled Metal wrote:I'm with the OP and many others on how I interpret things, ie inappropriate and unwelcome comment from someone his son has never met before.

The other point I would make is that clothing is up to the individual. It is no more your right to comment on my clothing choice than mine too comment on yours. In fact if you do it on twitter to the wrong person you might get a backlash song the lines of body shaming type of allegations.

As I see it the young lad is a road cyclist who is involved in an active cycling club for kids, who probably gets involved in club runs / races and is proud of being in his cycling club.

Heck I'm like the OP father too in that I'm proud to have a son who's keen on cycling but he's too young for his local youth cycling club (almost 6 years old but club only takes 7+ years). When / if he joins his local club I'll get him a team kit if he wants one. He already has his cycling clothing (a cycling ss top and normal kids shorts that he calls his cycling shorts). Won't cycle without them except to school. BTW the school had a cycle to school week (part of a national campaign I think where schools compete to record as many journeys by bike as possible). Our son did not need to change his habits because he already cycled to school each day, only 5.

IMHO a kid who is into cycling as a sport (assumption based on club kit) has every right to wear the kit he wears with the club on his own rides. If clubs insist of helmet use, especially with kids under 12 which I believe has a degree of evidence supporting it and in some countries its mandated by law, it is their right and choice. If a member of such a club chooses to continue wearing the helmet on his own rides that is their right and not a brain washing process.

BTW in case you hadn't guessed I believe it is a good thing to hear about a 10 year old cycling for a hobby instead of PlayStation games and never going out. If you want to make any comment to such a kid make sure the patent is present and only be positive and supportive. IMHO negativity like trying to impose your views on him is to be avoided lest you discourage a potential lifetime cyclist at such a young age. And that's not a snowflake type thing going on it's purely about positivity being better than negativity.


I know of a safe space where anyone annoyed, confused or frightened by the blare and hoot of the world and its often peculiar human denizens may hide away from their madding crowd. There is even a wardrobe containing a cotton wool suit!

However, this means being cut off from the useful advice and aid of others as well as those blares and hoots. Life! It just never becomes perfect, eh!

Cugel