Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
eileithyia
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby eileithyia » 11 Sep 2018, 9:02am

Tangled Metal wrote:
eileithyia wrote:ibbo68, that's a lovely little bike. TM my son's progression was; trailer, tandem, 24" Raleigh, 650cc Decathlon, then Ribble 'Winter Training' before getting a full carbon Ribble Racing Sportive.

Shame your lad cannot join a club yet, our local GoRide takes from 6 with an adult but have we have had younger turn up as long as they can cope.

Just found out it takes from 6 years. He's 6 in December which means the next season starts from March so he'll be there for sure.

I think I read that you're based in the northwest. Not Lancaster area with the salt Ayre cogset cycling club by any chance? That's our local youth cycling club if it is. I'll contact them sooner if it is.



My on started with Ribble Valley jnrs, it was the local club around at the time, their evening off road sessions have now stopped, but there is a Saturday morning mountain bike ride out where there is some road riding required between segments. It is all heavily marshalled at road crossings. Occassionally a younger child comes along but they have to have to be competent at cycling.
We did used to attend Salt Ayre on Thursdays and see the Cog Set youngsters but it got too much on the weeks when t'other half had to be at 4am on alternate weeks.
Good luck and best wishes when your youngster finally gets his cycle club wings.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

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Cugel
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cugel » 11 Sep 2018, 9:04am

ibbo68 wrote:This thread has actually helped quite a lot!Whilst I don't agree with every comment or post it has confirmed my thoughts that the bloke was out of order.My son hasn't brought it up since(but I have spoken to him about it)and I doubt what was said will make him change his mind.He's happily been out twice since and worn his usual kit.I think it probably annoyed me more than it did him hence this thread but as I said a couple of pages ago we've put it down to this individual having nothing better to do.
I think my son will remember meeting the Brownlee brothers at the cycle circuit that bears their name a couple of weeks earlier rather than a grumpy old bloke at a cafe in Wales 8)


Frankly, your only error was to post your story here with an attempt to ..... what? Did you want confirmation of your attitude? To vent about daft ole pharts? to stimulate the interesting discussion that you did?

The error is i) in thinking that your story is the only legitimate viewpoint of what happened and ii) thinking the views of people who weren't there have any value about that particular situation. I never understand why people post these "this happened to me and what do you think" stories since to we readers they can only ever be .... stories (not necessarily "true stories", which notion is a contradiction in terms anyway).

But the discussion was interesting. I have no view on the incident itself, since I wasn't there, but it did give an opportunity to think about and discuss the modern notions of good/bad manners and child rearing. I've discovered I'm out of synch with many of these notions (although I knew that already, really).

What did you discover? :-)

Cugel

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meic
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 9:28am

Paulatic wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:.
I think my son will remember meeting the Brownlee brothers at the cycle circuit that bears their name a couple of weeks earlier rather than a grumpy old bloke at a cafe in Wales 8)


I'd missed that fact in the OP.
That’s part and parcel of a holiday in N Wales. :D My OH can confirm I’ve never once been to N Wales without coming away being upset by one of the natives. It’s never happened in SW just the North.


As the couple involved were "proper" cycle tourists then we have good reason to assume that they were not locals. They were probably not even Welsh.

If they had have been locals, I would have set off one one of my hobby horses about English people who come here to live because they love how it is compared to England (friendly, over familiar interactions with total strangers for example :wink: ) and then complain about how things are done here and do their best to convert it into a replica of what they left.
Yma o Hyd

Airsporter1st
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Airsporter1st » 11 Sep 2018, 10:05am

Cugel wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:This thread has actually helped quite a lot!Whilst I don't agree with every comment or post it has confirmed my thoughts that the bloke was out of order.My son hasn't brought it up since(but I have spoken to him about it)and I doubt what was said will make him change his mind.He's happily been out twice since and worn his usual kit.I think it probably annoyed me more than it did him hence this thread but as I said a couple of pages ago we've put it down to this individual having nothing better to do.
I think my son will remember meeting the Brownlee brothers at the cycle circuit that bears their name a couple of weeks earlier rather than a grumpy old bloke at a cafe in Wales 8)


Frankly, your only error was to post your story here with an attempt to ..... what? Did you want confirmation of your attitude? To vent about daft ole pharts? to stimulate the interesting discussion that you did?

The error is i) in thinking that your story is the only legitimate viewpoint of what happened and ii) thinking the views of people who weren't there have any value about that particular situation. I never understand why people post these "this happened to me and what do you think" stories since to we readers they can only ever be .... stories (not necessarily "true stories", which notion is a contradiction in terms anyway).

But the discussion was interesting. I have no view on the incident itself, since I wasn't there, but it did give an opportunity to think about and discuss the modern notions of good/bad manners and child rearing. I've discovered I'm out of synch with many of these notions (although I knew that already, really).

What did you discover? :-)

Cugel


I don't know about the OP, but what I discovered is that - shock, horror - an old man strikes up a conversation with a young man in a populated, public place and in close proximity to the young man's parent and has the temerity to venture an opinion which disagrees with views held by the parent. For that he is villified (by some). I find the whole thing quite saddening.

As I have got older and presumably perceived as less of a threat than 'the strangers to whom they must not talk', I find myself being approached more and more by young children, mainly to ask if they can stroke my dogs. Frequently, their parents are nearby but not immediately aware that their offspring are having a chat with a 'stranger''. To me, this is just a normal interaction in which the kid's express their opinions of dogs etc. and I listen politely and venture my own. I just don't see what all the fuss is about and I would suspect that if the truth were known, neither does the OP's son.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Sep 2018, 10:20am

meic wrote:
Paulatic wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:.
I think my son will remember meeting the Brownlee brothers at the cycle circuit that bears their name a couple of weeks earlier rather than a grumpy old bloke at a cafe in Wales 8)


I'd missed that fact in the OP.
That’s part and parcel of a holiday in N Wales. :D My OH can confirm I’ve never once been to N Wales without coming away being upset by one of the natives. It’s never happened in SW just the North.


As the couple involved were "proper" cycle tourists then we have good reason to assume that they were not locals. They were probably not even Welsh.

If they had have been locals, I would have set off one one of my hobby horses about English people who come here to live because they love how it is compared to England (friendly, over familiar interactions with total strangers for example :wink: ) and then complain about how things are done here and do their best to convert it into a replica of what they left.

Is Vyrwny in mid- or north- Wales?
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rmurphy195
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby rmurphy195 » 11 Sep 2018, 10:23am

Airsporter1st wrote:
I don't know about the OP, but what I discovered is that - shock, horror - an old man strikes up a conversation with a young man in a populated, public place and in close proximity to the young man's parent and has the temerity to venture an opinion which disagrees with views held by the parent. For that he is villified (by some). I find the whole thing quite saddening.

As I have got older and presumably perceived as less of a threat than 'the strangers to whom they must not talk', I find myself being approached more and more by young children, mainly to ask if they can stroke my dogs. Frequently, their parents are nearby but not immediately aware that their offspring are having a chat with a 'stranger''. To me, this is just a normal interaction in which the kid's express their opinions of dogs etc. and I listen politely and venture my own. I just don't see what all the fuss is about and I would suspect that if the truth were known, neither does the OP's son.


I do.

Its one thing for the person involved to talk about dogs/bikes whatever.

Its quite another to interfere with the parents efforts to bring the child up in a certain way, even if you disagree with it.

And certainly if the person is undermining the parents efforts to make the child safety-aware, which will go way beyond the specifics of the time.

I can remember giving my children examples of how to behave/what to wear/what to take in case of emergency in all sorts of outdoor activities and I would certainly not have been very please with any attempt to undermine this, whatever the motives of knowledge (or lack of it).
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Sep 2018, 10:26am

In loco parentis? :wink:

Children are minors till age 16 or 18, parents/grownups are in charge
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meic
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 10:29am

It is not realistic to think that you can prevent any child getting exposed to alternative views about how things should be done.
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meic
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 11:15am

and not some old bloke with nowt better to do than to take it upon himself to lecture a child.

Possibly he was a teacher. As I am not a teacher I dont even reach the high status of "some old bloke with nowt better to do than lecture a child".

I think that in parallel with the helmet issue there is a cultural-like issue of interaction with strangers here. These older people may belong to an age where such interactions (even with children! ) were actually part of the rich tapestry of life. Then they came to rural Wales which is (thankfully) a couple of decades behind England in its cultural development and they found themselves getting back into the swing of things as they were.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Sep 2018, 11:40am

Disagree :wink:
Wales is a couple of decades ahead of England
How many English children are bilingual?
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meic
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 11:47am

Progress and improvement are not the same thing.
I suspect the English majority will be just as monolingual in twenty years time as they are now.
You can include all but "the three" Welsh counties and Scotland in that too.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Sep 2018, 11:51am

Well our son used to count in different languages during hide and seek games at 3 years old. Must be his Welsh ancestry coming out!

Seriously though, I used to live near Blackburn so quite frankly about +50% of the population in my generation had at least two languages. Kind of their home language and the state language of English. Resembles Wales I reckon in that.

Although having more that one language you're fluent on doesn't stop you being a kn0b.

Airsporter1st
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Airsporter1st » 11 Sep 2018, 12:04pm

rmurphy195 wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:
I don't know about the OP, but what I discovered is that - shock, horror - an old man strikes up a conversation with a young man in a populated, public place and in close proximity to the young man's parent and has the temerity to venture an opinion which disagrees with views held by the parent. For that he is villified (by some). I find the whole thing quite saddening.

As I have got older and presumably perceived as less of a threat than 'the strangers to whom they must not talk', I find myself being approached more and more by young children, mainly to ask if they can stroke my dogs. Frequently, their parents are nearby but not immediately aware that their offspring are having a chat with a 'stranger''. To me, this is just a normal interaction in which the kid's express their opinions of dogs etc. and I listen politely and venture my own. I just don't see what all the fuss is about and I would suspect that if the truth were known, neither does the OP's son.


I do.

Its one thing for the person involved to talk about dogs/bikes whatever.

Its quite another to interfere with the parents efforts to bring the child up in a certain way, even if you disagree with it.

And certainly if the person is undermining the parents efforts to make the child safety-aware, which will go way beyond the specifics of the time.

I can remember giving my children examples of how to behave/what to wear/what to take in case of emergency in all sorts of outdoor activities and I would certainly not have been very please with any attempt to undermine this, whatever the motives of knowledge (or lack of it).


But where I think you are wrong is in taking such an extreme and negative view of the incident as described. Was the old fellow really trying to undermine the parents? Even if he was, which I would seriously doubt, why would a few minutes of conversation with a 'stranger' cause a radical about-turn in the child's beliefs as instilled in him over the years of interaction with his parents? Anyone who thinks that likely must surely have a real lack of confidence in their own ability to bring up their child in line with their own principles and, possibly worse, a lack of trust in said child.

paddler
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby paddler » 11 Sep 2018, 12:56pm

How a parents child is dressed is no-one else's concern. That's all it was - the old man was airing his prejudice. It really is none of his business.
Would people be so accepting if it had been a lycra clad roadie lecturing a casually dressed lad on a bike?

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slowster
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby slowster » 11 Sep 2018, 12:57pm

The continuing posts defending/justifying the behaviour of the old man show either a lack of comprehension skills, or reflect a similar lack of self-awareness and social skills to the old man's.

The OP detailed the interaction between the man and his son as follows:

as we entered the seating area and as I was waiting to be served i noticed the man chatting to my son.I just presumed he was talking cycling.I ordered and went to rejoin my son who looked a bit upset.When i asked him what was wrong he said "that man has just told me off for wearing my cycling kit and helmet" :!: I thought my lad had misunderstood so went to have a chat.I can recall the entire conversation and could quote it but basically this bloke had took it upon himself to lecture a 10 year old boy about not having to "dress like Bradley Wiggins" to enjoy riding his bike.He also admitted to telling my son it was absolutely fine to ride without a helmet

Given the short timescale of that interaction, it seems pretty clear that the old man very quickly turned the conversation to his particular prejudices, and proceeded to tell the boy he was wrong to wear cycle kit and wrong to wear a helmet. It's possible that it was not the old man who initiated the conversation, but I doubt it: the man had strong opinions about cycle clothing and helmets, and was very quick to fix on the boy as an audience for them.

Children are typically innocent and very open to being spoken to by complete strangers, and that encourages some inadequate individuals like that old man to approach and talk to children in an arrogant, condescending and bossy way that it is completely inappropriate. Most such individuals have just enough social awareness not to dare do that with another adult, whereas they know that children, being children, will let them get away with it.

Anyone who thinks that the old man's behaviour was acceptable or within the bounds of normal social conventions, have themselves got a problem.