Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Cugel
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cugel » 11 Sep 2018, 12:59pm

meic wrote:[
As the couple involved were "proper" cycle tourists then we have good reason to assume that they were not locals. They were probably not even Welsh.

If they had have been locals, I would have set off one one of my hobby horses about English people who come here to live because they love how it is compared to England (friendly, over familiar interactions with total strangers for example :wink: ) and then complain about how things are done here and do their best to convert it into a replica of what they left.


Amen to that!

T'ladywife and me are about to move permanently to West Wales, where we've semi-lived (on & off) over the past few years. When asked, I tell those of NW England who we'll be leaving behind that I'm not being pushed away (much) but rather pulled by the West Welsh zeitgeist.

My experience is that people there, for the most part, are still themselves - formed by their everyday experiences of their place and neighbours rather than by the stupidities of the mass media, particularly the stupidities of the nastier elements such as The Daily Frightener, Facebook and (non) reality TV. The West Welsh are friendly in the true sense - not mere sycophants, yes-people or other types who will never disagree & discuss because they think that everyone has a right to his own unquestioned opinions, no matter how silly or even dangerous to everyone else.

I will do my utmost to fit in with my new socio-cultural environment. I am trying to learn the language (although its actually quite difficult to find anyone willing to speak Welsh with you, especially young people). I will join a choir and otherwise participate, with glee & gratitude, in some of the many other old-fashioned social pastimes.

So - I suppose have been pushed away a bit from mainstream Blighty. I am sick & tired of mass-media constructed people and those who have centred their being in Facebook, Twitter or some other faux "social" space, where they regurgitate the crass bald opinions they absorb from The Daily Hate Mail or the Torygraph (or, for that matter, The Grauniad).

Cugel, hypocritically running to the hills, away from the madding crowd.

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meic
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 1:03pm

Would people be so accepting if it had been a lycra clad roadie lecturing a casually dressed lad on a bike?

Most certainly yes, would not even bat an eyelid.
On the subject of helmets it is a fairly frequent occurrence.
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 1:06pm

Cugel wrote:
meic wrote:[
As the couple involved were "proper" cycle tourists then we have good reason to assume that they were not locals. They were probably not even Welsh.

If they had have been locals, I would have set off one one of my hobby horses about English people who come here to live because they love how it is compared to England (friendly, over familiar interactions with total strangers for example :wink: ) and then complain about how things are done here and do their best to convert it into a replica of what they left.


Amen to that!

T'ladywife and me are about to move permanently to West Wales, where we've semi-lived (on & off) over the past few years. When asked, I tell those of NW England who we'll be leaving behind that I'm not being pushed away (much) but rather pulled by the West Welsh zeitgeist.

My experience is that people there, for the most part, are still themselves - formed by their everyday experiences of their place and neighbours rather than by the stupidities of the mass media, particularly the stupidities of the nastier elements such as The Daily Frightener, Facebook and (non) reality TV. The West Welsh are friendly in the true sense - not mere sycophants, yes-people or other types who will never disagree & discuss because they think that everyone has a right to his own unquestioned opinions, no matter how silly or even dangerous to everyone else.

I will do my utmost to fit in with my new socio-cultural environment. I am trying to learn the language (although its actually quite difficult to find anyone willing to speak Welsh with you, especially young people). I will join a choir and otherwise participate, with glee & gratitude, in some of the many other old-fashioned social pastimes.

So - I suppose have been pushed away a bit from mainstream Blighty. I am sick & tired of mass-media constructed people and those who have centred their being in Facebook, Twitter or some other faux "social" space, where they regurgitate the crass bald opinions they absorb from The Daily Hate Mail or the Torygraph (or, for that matter, The Grauniad).

Cugel, hypocritically running to the hills, away from the madding crowd.


Pembrokeshire, I guess from that. :lol:
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby bovlomov » 11 Sep 2018, 1:07pm

paddler wrote: Would people be so accepting if it had been a lycra clad roadie lecturing a casually dressed lad on a bike?

Most of the posts here are critical rather than accepting. And casually dressed riders (including lads and lasses) are lectured all the time, about what they aren't wearing on their heads. Indeed, many strangers think nothing of insulting us ("idiot", "stupid", "organ donor", "future recipient of the Darwin award", etc.).

EDIT: Meic got there first.

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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby paddler » 11 Sep 2018, 1:08pm

slowster wrote:The continuing posts defending/justifying the behaviour of the old man show either a lack of comprehension skills, or reflect a similar lack of self-awareness and social skills to the old man's.

The OP detailed the interaction between the man and his son as follows:

as we entered the seating area and as I was waiting to be served i noticed the man chatting to my son.I just presumed he was talking cycling.I ordered and went to rejoin my son who looked a bit upset.When i asked him what was wrong he said "that man has just told me off for wearing my cycling kit and helmet" :!: I thought my lad had misunderstood so went to have a chat.I can recall the entire conversation and could quote it but basically this bloke had took it upon himself to lecture a 10 year old boy about not having to "dress like Bradley Wiggins" to enjoy riding his bike.He also admitted to telling my son it was absolutely fine to ride without a helmet

Given the short timescale of that interaction, it seems pretty clear that the old man very quickly turned the conversation to his particular prejudices, and proceeded to tell the boy he was wrong to wear cycle kit and wrong to wear a helmet. It's possible that it was not the old man who initiated the conversation, but I doubt it: the man had strong opinions about cycle clothing and helmets, and was very quick to fix on the boy as an audience for them.

Children are typically innocent and very open to being spoken to by complete strangers, and that encourages some inadequate individuals like that old man to approach and talk to children in an arrogant, condescending and bossy way that it is completely inappropriate. Most such individuals have just enough social awareness not to dare do that with another adult, whereas they know that children, being children, will let them get away with it.

Anyone who thinks that the old man's behaviour was acceptable or within the bounds of normal social conventions, have themselves got a problem.


+1

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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cugel » 11 Sep 2018, 1:15pm

Airsporter1st wrote:I don't know about the OP, but what I discovered is that - shock, horror - an old man strikes up a conversation with a young man in a populated, public place and in close proximity to the young man's parent and has the temerity to venture an opinion which disagrees with views held by the parent. For that he is villified (by some). I find the whole thing quite saddening.

As I have got older and presumably perceived as less of a threat than 'the strangers to whom they must not talk', I find myself being approached more and more by young children, mainly to ask if they can stroke my dogs. Frequently, their parents are nearby but not immediately aware that their offspring are having a chat with a 'stranger''. To me, this is just a normal interaction in which the kid's express their opinions of dogs etc. and I listen politely and venture my own. I just don't see what all the fuss is about and I would suspect that if the truth were known, neither does the OP's son.


Ha ha - so true. I find young people who are not quite the full teenager to most inquisitive, friendly and easy to talk with about all sorts, because they have far fewer pre-conceptions and prejudices than do their parents. They are still interested in things and enjoy the pleasures of disagreement, especially with a mad old phart.

Not that one doesn't come across the odd kid that is just a parent-echo. Rather than provide them with a contradictory statement, I like to ask them questions in a Socratic manner to watch them become interested in the implications and contradictions of the dogmas they have so often been fed. No doubt the parent would think me some sort of abuser or terrorist! Ideas not their own! Call the Priest or even a witchfinder!

I feel sorry for modern children. My own childhood (and that of most of my generation) was filled with freedom and adventure. Also difficulties and a degree of violence, mind. But all in all, I will claim it built a larger resilience than I find in many modern young people, who have come to feel "entitled" to safety and comfort - although they often have no ability to arrange these for themselves.

But let us not generalise (too much). :-) There are some young people who are very able and resilient, perhaps partly because their parents gave them the opportunity to be so. One method is to encourage them in a sport that's competitive but also co-operative. Cycling within the Cycle club tradition can do this, although it's a bit sad to see even this polluted with "get them the best equipment and the image-stuff". When I were a lad it was basic everything, which levelled the playing field (the physical and the metaphysical varieties).

Cugel, wittering-on in ole phart style.

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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cugel » 11 Sep 2018, 1:22pm

paddler wrote:
slowster wrote:The continuing posts defending/justifying the behaviour of the old man show either a lack of comprehension skills, or reflect a similar lack of self-awareness and social skills to the old man's.

The OP detailed the interaction between the man and his son as follows:

as we entered the seating area and as I was waiting to be served i noticed the man chatting to my son.I just presumed he was talking cycling.I ordered and went to rejoin my son who looked a bit upset.When i asked him what was wrong he said "that man has just told me off for wearing my cycling kit and helmet" :!: I thought my lad had misunderstood so went to have a chat.I can recall the entire conversation and could quote it but basically this bloke had took it upon himself to lecture a 10 year old boy about not having to "dress like Bradley Wiggins" to enjoy riding his bike.He also admitted to telling my son it was absolutely fine to ride without a helmet

Given the short timescale of that interaction, it seems pretty clear that the old man very quickly turned the conversation to his particular prejudices, and proceeded to tell the boy he was wrong to wear cycle kit and wrong to wear a helmet. It's possible that it was not the old man who initiated the conversation, but I doubt it: the man had strong opinions about cycle clothing and helmets, and was very quick to fix on the boy as an audience for them.

Children are typically innocent and very open to being spoken to by complete strangers, and that encourages some inadequate individuals like that old man to approach and talk to children in an arrogant, condescending and bossy way that it is completely inappropriate. Most such individuals have just enough social awareness not to dare do that with another adult, whereas they know that children, being children, will let them get away with it.

Anyone who thinks that the old man's behaviour was acceptable or within the bounds of normal social conventions, have themselves got a problem.


+1

Dave


-10 :-)

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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby paddler » 11 Sep 2018, 1:24pm

bovlomov wrote:
paddler wrote: Would people be so accepting if it had been a lycra clad roadie lecturing a casually dressed lad on a bike?

Most of the posts here are critical rather than accepting. And casually dressed riders (including lads and lasses) are lectured all the time, about what they aren't wearing on their heads. Indeed, many strangers think nothing of insulting us ("idiot", "stupid", "organ donor", "future recipient of the Darwin award", etc.).

EDIT: Meic got there first.

Obviously I am not referring to them. But I am surprised how many think it ok to lecture another's child . And would they have backed a roadie doing what I described in the original post? As in "I returned to my son to find that a man dressed in lycra had been telling him he would be better off dressed in the same?"

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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Vorpal » 11 Sep 2018, 3:23pm

Helmet stuff split off into the ghetto... viewtopic.php?f=41&t=124834&p=1271306#p1271306
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 3:40pm

One of mine went missing, not important but I cant see how it could possibly have been worth censoring.
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Vorpal » 11 Sep 2018, 3:48pm

meic wrote:One of mine went missing, not important but I cant see how it could possibly have been worth censoring.

Sorry about that. It wasn't censored. It was an accidental victim, and it didn't seem relevant to a split thread. I meant to send you a pm about it, but got distracted by <gasp> work.
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Sep 2018, 3:52pm

Sometimes I lose a post, my smartphone loses the signal
Other times my post is duplicated :?
..
It seems to turn on where you are. Or who (Philip Larkin)
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 11 Sep 2018, 3:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby meic » 11 Sep 2018, 3:52pm

It was no loss.
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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby paddler » 11 Sep 2018, 4:14pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:In loco parentis? :wink:

Children are minors till age 16 or 18, parents/grownups are in charge


I don't really think loco parentis applies. :D If the child was in imminent danger of running into the road or was causing mayhem somehow then yes perhaps. But the guy was basically - and try explaining this to someone outside of cycling - lecturing the lad for being dressed differently to himself.
I'm starting to be inclined towards the view that the old guy might not be aware of sport cycling as a distinct thing on it's own which could put a different slant on things.

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Re: Interfering stranger lecturing my son about bike clothing

Postby Zigster » 11 Sep 2018, 5:24pm

I'd be furious if a stranger started lecturing my son on something which was none of his business.

But I agree with others - this sounds like a rare event and not one from you infer a pattern. In my experience, I've never been lectured by non helmet wearers when I've got a lid on, but I frequently get lectured by helmet wearers when I'm going commando.