Montague bi-frame folding MTB bag

[random37]

Hello

As you may know, my ride is a Rudge Montague bi-frame folding MTB. I have really bonded with the odd thing. It has an inline seatpin now, and a Spa leather saddle. The only bike where I haven't had to move the saddle right back on its rails! With a little saddlebag, it's the perfect machine for my needs.

Has anyone ever tried the Montague carrying bag? There is mention of it here. Specifically, I am interested in whether you have managed to get it on public transport. Have you managed to get it on a bus or a train as normal luggage? This is the bag, if you don't want to view the thread:

I thought it could make for some really interesting journeys at places I'd otherwise have to drive to, or a nice "bail out" if I don't feel like riding anymore. I know it's not normal folding bike proportions, and the rules depend very much on the attitude of whoever you're dealing with, but I like the idea that it isn't obviously a bike once it's bagged. That'd help - wouldn't it?

Also, kudos is due to Montague bikes for supporting their old products. I am delighted they still make this bag! I might treat myself to a new bike to thank them for their helpful replies to my questions via email.

[PH]

I have an Airnimal* that packs into a bag around the same size. It's been on about ten National Express and Megabus coaches without comment and on a local bus service that also serves the airport. Also a couple of times on peak trains where bikes were not permitted, though the trains were not particularly busy and I'd have waited for the next if they had been. I'm thinking of taking it on the Transpeak Derby>Manchester bus, T&C's say folding bikes in racks provided, but they're not big enough so I'll choose a quiet time and see how that goes.

* Actually two bikes over a period of 15 years.

[random37]

The Transpeak is exactly the bus I was thinking about!

[PH]

The Transpeak is exactly the bus I was thinking about!

Well, maybe the first of us to use it could report back. I've used it for walking sometimes, along with a Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket, it's great to be able to hop on and off in different places.

[Brucey]

....Specifically, I am interested in whether you have managed to get it on public transport. Have you managed to get it on a bus or a train as normal luggage?

......I thought it could make for some really interesting journeys at places I'd otherwise have to drive to, or a nice "bail out" if I don't feel like riding anymore. I know it's not normal folding bike proportions, and the rules depend very much on the attitude of whoever you're dealing with, but I like the idea that it isn't obviously a bike once it's bagged. That'd help - wouldn't it?

Also, kudos is due to Montague bikes for supporting their old products. I am delighted they still make this bag!

I think the bag fits their current products too. I agree that the combination of bike and public transport is a powerful one.

Public transport has some odd rules; however once a bike is folded and wrapped up it becomes (with some caveats) just 'luggage'. So there should be no problem with carrying a bike in a bag, provided that size of luggage isn't itself prohibited (it might be...).

IIRC in Montreal they used to have a rule of 'no bikes on public transport' but would let folk on with all kinds of other outsize loads. As an active protest they 'tested the system' and were allowed to carry an extension ladder and an oversized stuffed animal but (of course) had anything that looked like a bicycle turned away. Ironically enough the stuffed animal had..... a bicycle inside it...... After some campaigning the rules were changed.

A bin liner or rubble bag might do as a bike bag and is less of a liability to carry around.

BTW Montague's current offerings are a bit more like other folding bikes to ride; the frame on the BiFrame model doesn't feel quite like a normal diamond frame to ride on but it isn't far off.

cheers

[random37]

BTW Montague's current offerings are a bit more like other folding bikes to ride; the frame on the BiFrame model doesn't feel quite like a normal diamond frame to ride on but it isn't far off.

What do you mean, Brucey? I know you have an old one like mine. Do you own a new one? If not, have you ridden one?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Seriously tempted. It would be nice to have a lighter one to haul up the steps to my house (it's a very long walk and quite steep!), and I was very impressed with the customer service. I'd want to swap out a lot of parts, but that's par for the course. I like to tinker!

[Brucey]

The newer models have an aluminium frame and (spec for spec) they might be a pound lighter, maybe two, tops. The headline weights in their literature are not terribly special, for example the 'urban' model weighs 29lbs and the 'fit' model weighs 26lbs, even with a carbon fork. [BTW I wouldn't have a carbon fork on a folding bike; it'd get knocked too easily.]

The main danger with a folding bike (of any kind) is that it feels a bit like it has a hinge in the middle and isn't actually very nice to ride. The second danger (esp with aluminium frames) is that they are more highly stressed than a non-folding bike and they are vulnerable to fatigue and breakage. The current montague bikes feel a bit more 'hinge-like' than the BiFrame and whilst it ought to be better than yer average Taiwanese folding bike in the second respect it is still a worry; there is a reason not all bike frames are made that way.....

The target market for Montague (which is basically folk who want to carry their bike by car easily but a) can't be bothered to take both wheels out and b) don't want one with small wheels) includes an awful lot of people who don't actually ride their bike much; they may not be discriminating vs the 'hinge' effect and they certainly won't often challenge the durability aspects of the design. [FWIW Dahon make some 26" wheeled machines and the only one I have ever seen that I could describe as 'well used' (the rider had been doing about 150 miles a week on it for a few years) was also broken; the frame was just about to, uh, 'fold' in a whole new place.... ]

A bike with 700C wheels will be very slightly faster on the road but won't fold down so small. All folding bikes are a compromise...

I'm quite happy with my BiFrame; it wears 559x32mm road tyres (which are fast enough for me) and without super- lightweight parts (it is fitted with dropped bars BTW) it weighs about 28lbs. I know that the same parts fitted to a non-folding MTB frame (in decent butted tubing) might yield a bike that is a fraction under 27lbs... so I am 'paying' about 1 or 1.5lbs to have it foldable, but the ride quality isn't really affected vs a normal bike, considering it folds. If I went to town on it I could quite easily knock a couple of lbs off it and it would still be cheaper than a new bike as well as better to ride and (almost certainly) more durable.

A key thing is perhaps that I would be happy with my BiFrame in a bin liner, whereas with a new bike I would want it in a more substantial (padded,,,?) bag, which I'd have to carry around, along with a better lock, and goodness knows what else...

cheers

[random37]

I don't know. I don't see how the current Montague design is prone to failure in the same was as the Dahon MTBs. A friend had a Dahon that failed at the hinge, but I can't see how a similar break could happen on a Montague.

Or have the design of Dahon 26" bikes changed? I have been out of the loop for a while.

[drossall]

I have a very old, home made (not by me) canvas carry bag for a full-size bike. Nearly forty years ago, when there was very little provision for cycle carriage, I put my road bike in it and took the train from Manchester to London for a student championship. I was heading for Kent, so I needed to go across London on the tube. The staff on the barrier did ask what was in my bag, but I just grinned in a "That's for me to know and you to find out" sort of way. These days, I suppose they would have made it their business to find out, but then they just let me through.

It isn't that much bigger than the bag pictured.

[Brucey]

I don't know. I don't see how the current Montague design is prone to failure in the same was as the Dahon MTBs. A friend had a Dahon that failed at the hinge, but I can't see how a similar break could happen on a Montague.

Or have the design of Dahon 26" bikes changed? I have been out of the loop for a while.

IIRC it was species of Dahon espresso, and it was merrily breaking where the main tube joined the seat tube. Welded aluminium frames are often not terribly fatigue resistant in practice; the slightest flaw and a crack will be off and running quite quickly; a lot of folding bikes put extra stresses into the welded joints so they have an even shorter service life.

My suspicion is that (esp if you are a 'handlebar wrestler') the current montague design may not be as long lasting as one might want it to be. However the chances of seeing actual broken bikes (outside of montague or their dealers) are vanishingly small; it is not as if all their bikes are likely to be actually ridden that much...

cheers

[random37]

Lots of broken Dahons on Google image search, and all a similar break (like the one that belonged to my friend). I think the hinge on Dahons is stupid, as it is all that joins both sides of the bike.

I haven't been able to find an image of a broken Montague, apart from one where the seatpost was obviously not inserted into the frame enough (crack below the binder bolt but above the top tube of the frame, with the seatpost clearly no more than two inches in).

It strikes me that the fastener on the Montague's top tube is under much less stress than the design of the Dahon. I note that there are also knockoffs of the Montague available on Aliexpress. We can't tell these are the same quality.

Still, I will investigate further before making a purchase.

[Brucey]

Small wheeled Dahons break all the time, at the hinge. I wouldn't buy one of these if I planned to ride it very far. I'm not saying that I think the Montague is in the same league as that but i would be amazed if it is as durable as a conventional bike. With any bike, it is definitely a very good idea to go for a test ride.

The current montague design looks (superficially) like the dead weight loads will be reasonably well supported. However bike frames see all kinds of other loads too and these both affect the ride feel and are rather less easily accommodated.

I suspect that part of the 'hinge' feeling comes from the fact that there is very little lateral bending stiffness / lengthwise torsional stiffness offered by the hinge clamp on the montague, and the majority of such loading is taken by a single tube, the seat tube, which sees some hefty bending loads right in the middle. IIRC in the middle is where the seat tube may also be marked through repeated folding/unfolding.

An old-fashioned test which tells you quite a lot about the way the bike behaves out of the saddle and (on a diamond frame) how efficient it is likely to feel is (with the tyres pumped up pretty hard) to stand to one side facing the bike, lean the bike away from you slightly, and to push the BB away from you using one foot, whilst holding the handlebars (and/or saddle) using one hand. This puts the forks and chainstays into lateral bending and puts a torsional stress into the whole frame; both loads simulate what the frame sees when you ride out of the saddle and/or very forcefully. The frame should feel fairly stiff rather than floppy, and any movement there is should feel springy rather than mushy.

Try a few frames (that you variously like and don't like) to get a feel of it. Not that I have often found one that is too stiff, but this is one possibility (mainly in gas pipe steel, oversized carbon/alu frames). There should some movement at moderate force rather than none. IIRC when I tried this test on a current montague type bike, it felt kind of soft and mushy (as per riding the thing) rather than stiff and springy.

cheers