GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
stinkinMo
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GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby stinkinMo » 17 Sep 2018, 11:24am

Look guys I'm doing a GCSE project in D.T and i need some help. I'm trying to solve the issue of bike safety/cycling safety. Can you write some issues with bike safety and stuff to do with Hi-Vis issues. Or even help me out loads and give me some ideas for products which you wish where on the market yet aren't. (Hi-Vis Belt, Gloves) anything would be greatly appreciated.

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Graham
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Graham » 17 Sep 2018, 11:31am

I suspect that you might rapidly decide to change your project focus, when we get going here. . . . .

It has very little to do with HiViz and "Safety" products : much more to do with the attitudes and behaviour of road users - cyclists and especially those in control of motor vehicles.

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horizon
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby horizon » 17 Sep 2018, 11:34am

stinkinMo wrote:Look guys I'm doing a GCSE project in D.T and i need some help. I'm trying to solve the issue of bike safety/cycling safety. Can you write some issues with bike safety and stuff to do with Hi-Vis issues. Or even help me out loads and give me some ideas for products which you wish where on the market yet aren't. (Hi-Vis Belt, Gloves) anything would be greatly appreciated.


It's not about the bike. Good, got that out of the way. Now back to serious GCSE stuff.

Yes, what I want is a retractable 1.5 metre bike spacer. Hi-viz, big flag, flick vertical for tight spaces, lights on end. Fixed to rack or handlebars.

Go for it!
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

stinkinMo
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby stinkinMo » 17 Sep 2018, 11:35am

Graham wrote:I suspect that you might rapidly decide to change your project focus, when we get going here. . . . .

It has very little to do with HiViz and "Safety" products : much more to do with the attitudes and behaviour of road users - cyclists and especially those in control of motor vehicles.


Any Idea on what to change my project to Graham

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mjr
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby mjr » 17 Sep 2018, 11:46am

Hi Viz does nothing good. See http://eprints.nottingham.ac.uk/12855/

IMO it dehumanises the riders so that drivers don't immediately subconsciously recognise them as humans that can be hurt easily by huge motorised lumps of metal. It may even be that because drivers aren't expecting to see a space lemon in the road, they simply don't see it - like this.

I suspect more useful safety products are things like that Garmin radar that let you know if something is coming up behind too fast, or cameras with a flipping obvious recording/power light next to their lens, or ignoring motorists, things like better road-focused lights, things to stop obstructions falling into spokes (including sekuclips for mudguards) or ice tyres.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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horizon
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby horizon » 17 Sep 2018, 11:47am

stinkinMo wrote:
Any Idea on what to change my project to Graham


Yes, you could look at how driving instructors teach safety around cyclists and how examiners test it. But that isn't a product and I presume that DT (design technology) demands one. Design technologists solve problems through design. The problem is that that isn't always the best way to find the solution.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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meic
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby meic » 17 Sep 2018, 11:47am

While generally agreeing with Graham.
Along the lines of resisting the idea that it is the cyclist having to be seen rather than the motorist having to look and not wanting any more stuff being manufactured just to keep the wheels of consumerism turning. There are two "gaps" that I have noticed where what there is isnt particularly satisfactory.

1) While out cycling at night my reflective bibs dont help show when I am indicating.
Something that makes the wrist, hand or forearm very obvious in the car lights would be nice.

2) The issue of our bikes being legally required to have ( BS certified) reflectors on the pedals but most of our favourite pedals not having such reflectors fitted and the afterthought remedies generally not being adopted by users.

Of course there are existing answers to these issues but they are not satisfactory for users, or adopted by users, for one reason or another.
Yma o Hyd

mattsccm
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby mattsccm » 17 Sep 2018, 11:53am

We all know that hi viz isn't the issue but to some extent being visible is common sense in the same way that you don't walk in black kit in the middle of the road so lets give the lad some help.
How about gloves with reflective arrows pointing to the fingers? Often thought that they would stand out and just be helpful to other road users when indicating. . Or as mentioned pedal or maybe cleat based reflectors.

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horizon
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby horizon » 17 Sep 2018, 11:54am

I use a hi-viz "tabbard" mainly to keep my other clothes clean. It has a full zip and pockets. But it's still pretty useless as a jacket: the pockets are too flimsy. I would like a much better hi-viz cycling top.

And, BTW, if you could investigate ways of recycling all these millions of hi-viz items, that would be terrific.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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mjr
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby mjr » 17 Sep 2018, 11:59am

mattsccm wrote:We all know that hi viz isn't the issue but to some extent being visible is common sense in the same way that you don't walk in black kit in the middle of the road so lets give the lad some help.
How about gloves with reflective arrows pointing to the fingers? Often thought that they would stand out and just be helpful to other road users when indicating. . Or as mentioned pedal or maybe cleat based reflectors.

I have such gloves, with reflective chevrons down the fingers. They make no noticeable difference - motorists still overtake through a right-turn signal. I've also tried snap wraps on the wrists and jackets with reflective piping on the arms. Useless, as far as I can tell.

The trouble with "common sense" is that it's often not sensible at all. Making oneself look stranger but non-threatening doesn't help you to get treated better at all. Maybe a reflective fake gun slung across one's back is what's needed, but that will have other problems these days.

I do often walk along roads (welcome to the countryside, where footways are rare) wearing black, dark blue or dark grey. What makes the biggest difference to my safety is carrying a lantern (not a torch), so I can see where I can walk safely. It probably illuminates me to motorists too, as a side-effect, but really they ought to be driving as required by their licence, so they can stop within what they can see to be clear. Maybe then fewer of them would crash into unlit stationary objects!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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meic
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby meic » 17 Sep 2018, 12:07pm

There is nothing that we can do about a motorist choosing to ignore our indications, they frequently do ignore them, day and night.
That doesnt mean that we dont have a wish to make those indications easily visible for those who are looking.

The pedal reflectors are our legal requirement, we can hardly criticise the motorists for ignoring their requirements, if we are ignoring our own.
Yma o Hyd

Bez
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Bez » 17 Sep 2018, 12:15pm

stinkinMo wrote:Look guys I'm doing a GCSE project in D.T and i need some help. I'm trying to solve the issue of bike safety/cycling safety.


That's a very ambitious aim for GCSE level, and one which history shows is not solved by hi-vis. If you were to say "I'm trying to create a product which people will buy" then you can more realistically achieve that. But it's worth noting that if you can think of some form of hi-viz/lighting trinket for people on bikes, it's a fairly sure bet that someone's already thought of it; and if someone's thought of it, it's a fairly sure bet that they've had a go at getting it to market; and if they've had a go at getting it to market the chances are it's been a commercial flop. Many things have succeeded, but (thankfully) a vast number more have fallen by the wayside.

stinkinMo wrote:Can you write some issues with bike safety and stuff to do with Hi-Vis issues. Or even help me out loads and give me some ideas for products which you wish where on the market yet aren't. (Hi-Vis Belt, Gloves) anything would be greatly appreciated.


Belts? Gloves? Heh, you're nowhere near the outer limits of obscure tat which has been manufactured in the name of "visibility"! :)

OK, setting aside opinions/facts about the efficacy of visibility trinkets, for the academic purposes of a design project here's one idea that I've not seen before. A pedal with an integrated magneto (much like a "dynamo" hub) which is just about adequate to power a small strip of orange LEDs around the edge of the pedal. So as you ride, the pedal lights up at the front, rear and side. There are no additional moving parts but you'll need to design it such that the pedal body does not become too thick, and you'll need to design the integration of the LEDs and electronics and a durable, waterproof casing for it. Possibly a little too much for GCSE, I suppose?
Last edited by Bez on 17 Sep 2018, 12:21pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Bez » 17 Sep 2018, 12:19pm

meic wrote:we can hardly criticise the motorists for ignoring their requirements, if we are ignoring our own.


For a few hundred yards I cycled on the pavement with my children this morning on the way to school, consciously ignoring our legal requirement not to do so. If you think this justifies drivers ignoring various legal requirements (such as not driving on the pavement) then I suggest we stop this line of debate before the OP finds their thread descending into a lengthy, heated, and broadly irrelevant argument ;)

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 17 Sep 2018, 12:22pm

Greetings, and welcome.

The problem with hi vis is that it addresses a non existent problem. People don't drive into cyclists because they don't see them. People run cyclists over because they either were not looking properly, or were driving inappropriately. Hi via addresses neither of these problems. This is why there is very little evidence linking hi vis to reduced casualty figures.

So the problem you need to address is one of making motor or vehicle drivers pay attention and behaving, and educating people that hi vis isn't the answer to the problem.
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby SpudULike » 17 Sep 2018, 12:39pm

horizon wrote: [...] what I want is a retractable 1.5 metre bike spacer.


And, for me, if you can arrange to add to the end of this retractable spacer an inked roller with the words "Too close!" stencilled in then so much the better. How else will they know?

;-)