GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby [XAP]Bob » 17 Sep 2018, 12:53pm

A sign saying 'passes within 1.5m will get painted'

Attached to a distance sensor and a paintball gun

Might need some detection for forward motion, as well as a conservative distance detection...
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby mjr » 17 Sep 2018, 12:58pm

Bez wrote:OK, setting aside opinions/facts about the efficacy of visibility trinkets, for the academic purposes of a design project here's one idea that I've not seen before. A pedal with an integrated magneto (much like a "dynamo" hub) which is just about adequate to power a small strip of orange LEDs around the edge of the pedal. So as you ride, the pedal lights up at the front, rear and side.

So a steady orange version of pedalites, then?
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Cunobelin
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Cunobelin » 17 Sep 2018, 1:36pm

Allegedly the most effective visibility aid is to be as close as possible to the local Police


Image

Polite vests are popular and anecdotally very effective

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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Bez » 17 Sep 2018, 1:55pm

mjr wrote:So a steady orange version of pedalites, then?


See, I told you it's a fairly sure bet that any given idea for a tatty visibility trinket has already been had :)

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Graham
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Graham » 17 Sep 2018, 2:20pm

stinkinMo wrote:Any Idea on what to change my project to Graham

That's a challenging question.

Assuming that D.T. is the abbreviation of Design Technology ( rather than Delirium Tremens ) . . .. I assume that you are constrained by the requirement to take an idea for a product through the design process to produce a prototype.

Were it possible to take the initial thoughts/preconceptions into a much wider context, you might well end up with a social history project, with little to do with design of a product.

Compulsory black box recorders in motor vehicles might well modify driver behaviour, but many drivers would resist this intrusion for fear of it recording their errors of judgement / risk-taking behavior.

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NUKe
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby NUKe » 17 Sep 2018, 3:00pm

IF it’s for DT how about gloves with indicators built into the back which using motion detection will flash when the arm is put out. or just have a simple button in the palm
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Sep 2018, 3:06pm

I presume we have been approached by somebody in their mid-teens with a GCSE project. The student has approached this forum in good faith and in all innocence, looking for information, experience, perhaps a bit of help and so on. They've stumbled into a minefield, constructed by snakes and full of hornets nests. Lamb to the slaughter is another possible metaphor.

My advice to the OP would be that if the specification of the project is to design a hi-viz garment which fits the needs of cyclists, then take it for granted that the specification requires hi-viz and consider what technical attributes you want to include. eg breathability implies mesh fabric as used in the waistcoats worn by people whose work has them standing in traffic; weather protection implies some sort of waterproof fabric as used in a lot of cycling garments already. ie Stick with a technical approach to the garment itself.

Stray - a word I use advisedly - beyond that on this forum and you will have the potential for a PhD thesis or two on safety-related matters.
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PS Gloves with built-in indicators have been marketed relatively recently and without success IIRC

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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby TrevA » 17 Sep 2018, 3:22pm

I think something fairly simple like gloves with indicator arrows or lights would be useful and within the remit of GCSE DT.

Something more complex that would be useful, would be a rear facing camera that connects via Bluetooth to your mobile phone that's mounted on your handlebars, so that you can see what's going on behind you. Or an indicator light that attaches to a helmet, that can be activated by tilted your head or pressing a button on the handlebars. There are helmets that incorporate this technology already, but something that could be attached to the back of an existing helmet, or even saddle or seatpost, would be useful.
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Graham » 17 Sep 2018, 3:50pm

Here is a project :

When REAR bike lights changed to LEDs as a light source Vistalight produced the 5-LED blinkers.

Such was the clip mounting on those lights and the shape of my shoes at the heel, that I could clip one on each heel.
This was remarkably visible at night due to :-
- the pair of blinking red LED lights
- the rotational movement around the pedals
- the blink rate was slightly different on each light, leading to a gradual in & out of phase effect. This was all very eye-catching.

For me it was pure improvisation. Nothing designed. All Chance.

Your challenge will be to :-
- Find a suitable pair of lights that would suit being mounted on a cyclist's shoe heels.
- Find/develop a mount that would hold them in firmly place - without discomfort

Warning : some lights may be lost or destroyed in the course of the project.

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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 17 Sep 2018, 4:30pm

Some kind of electronic device that senses a cars approach, and broadcasts a signal to the cars radio with a pre recorded warning message?
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Sep 2018, 5:59pm

I wonder if suggesting considering a different project is unhelpful to the OP as a GCSE student. Although my own schooldays ended in 1963 when it was O and A Levels, I have on my CV a GCSE certificate obtained in 2000 and that involved two relatively small obligatory research projects which were stipulated in the syllabus and over which candidates had no choice.

A lot of the membership of the forum has strong views about this subject, plenty evidence-based, others tending towards "common sense."

If the OP hasn't been frightened off forever, it ought to be possible to help them with some suggestions for the design criteria to do a decent project, while still holding reservations about the value of hi-viz togs. I, for one, would be happy to help.

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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby eileithyia » 18 Sep 2018, 8:15am

Hi and welcome. As with any forum you will encounter all our prejudices so hopefully you can work through some of the stuff and find useful information.

Personally I pay decent money for my kit and don't like the idea of some tatty bit of builders Hi-Viz tabard over it, quite apart from the fact I find them far too hot to cycle in.
When I do need a gilet style top, I have items such as the Rapha ones in bright orange or pink.... these colours are far more hiviz than the yellowy green builder stuff which can disappear when the background is light spring greens and the yellowy colours of fading leaves.

Best stuff is the kit by companies like https://www.provizsports.com/en-gb/?msc ... iz%20Exact

The silver stuff is brilliant, but I only wear one of their gilets at night cos again it is far too hot to wear most of the time. My main complaint (and I have spoken to them and they said they would discuss with their design team) is that it does not have a drop hem style at the back..... and when riding on a roadbike the area presented backwards to motorists is not covered by the lower edge of the jacket thus reducing the area that is brightest.
So some product that is lighter and has a lower hem at the rear would be great. Some form of incorporating the silver material into the back of a track mitt style glove would also be great.

Good Luck
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby rmurphy195 » 18 Sep 2018, 1:14pm

A) The What

I have a number of highly-visible items of clothing, which I wear depending on circumstances

1) A lightweight yellow rainproof shell, with a couple of reflective bits across the back, for summer use
2) A proper breathable waterproof in yellow, again with a couple of reflectives on it for winter use
3) A pair of yellow gloves, for the winter of course!
4) brightly coloured socks
5) White headgear
6) A peaked cap to keep the rain off my specs.
7) My SPD shoes have bits of reflective on the heels.

b) The why
A bit of "common sense", which comes from experience of riding/driving a number of vehicles from the late 50' (early cycling days) onwards - these experiences include (but are not limited to)

1) Looking behind when cycling one rainy night, preparatory to making a right turn - and failing to notice a car behind. In those days cars such as the A35 that was behind me had tiny little sidelamps perched on the tops of the wings - completely lost in the general lighting and with raindrops on my specs. What did this tell me? - wear a peaked cap in the rain(!), and also have lamps the look like it, rather than tiny pinpricks of light. This was about 50 yrs ago, and I still remember it vividly. Part of the reason as well I suspect for the "dipped headlights" camaigns of years ago

2) Driving, cycling, and on a bus in fog - and I mean real fog sometimes, pea-soupers of the 60's. Vehicle lights, even fog lights, are often seen AFTER the shape of the vehicle if it is brightly coloured. Pretty obvious to me then what to wear under foggy conditions - and indeed dull conditions! And it isn't blinding lights that serve only to dazzle.

3) The unfortunate death of a relative who used to commute to work by motorbike, wearing the gear popular in the day - and even today (black leather, no reflectives in those days). took a tumble on an unlit road, and while lying on the ground hit by a vehicle whose driver didn't see him until too late.

4) Travelling back from Norfolk one rainy night in the late 60's - almost hit a policeman in the road in an unlit village. He was wearing the uniform of the day - with bright buttons, which I saw as I swerved around him. Thankfully members of the emergency services wear flashing lights/hi vis etc. these days.

5) More recently, driving in a thunderstorm - black skies ahead, lots of very slow moving traffic, very heavy rain, the whole 9 yards. Cyclist in black clothing goes past with a flashing light on his helmet. Not seen at all as he came up behind, and after only a couple of cars lengths even his flashing light became completely invisible.

Result - of course I wear light-coloured and sometimes hi-viz clothing. I want to be seen, and I want to be seen for what I am, not mistaken for something else or something distant! And I want to be seen in people's peripheral vision, not rely on them looking directly at me. Don't forget, when you are looking directly at one thing you are reliant on your peripheral vision to spot other things.

You can see these things for yourself, by experiment and observation.
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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby gbnz » 18 Sep 2018, 1:31pm

meic wrote:
2) The issue of our bikes being legally required to have ( BS certified) reflectors on the pedals but most of our favourite pedals not having such reflectors fitted and the afterthought remedies generally not being adopted by users..


+1. Only this morning was I looking at Wilko's cheap reflector pedals for winter use (Nb. Wouldn't bother trying to fit reflectors to my shimano spd pedals)

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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Postby rmurphy195 » 18 Sep 2018, 1:36pm

gbnz wrote:
+1. Only this morning was I looking at Wilko's cheap reflector pedals for winter use (Nb. Wouldn't bother trying to fit reflectors to my shimano spd pedals)


I've put strips of reflective self-adhesive tape on mine.
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