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Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 1:41pm
by meic
We have reflectives on our shoes and ankle bands which like your tape meet the spirit of the law but none of these meet the letter of the law.

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 3:05pm
by Psamathe
horizon wrote:I use a hi-viz "tabbard" mainly to keep my other clothes clean.....

I use one as a stop gap between t-shirt alone and waterproof top. Gives that bit of extra warmth but still allows plenty of air flow where I find a long sleeved waterproof top almost always makes me too hot. That the tabard is hi-vis is not important - they are cheap.

But I do avoid the hi-vis yellow in spring/early-summer as they are prefect camouflage against the oil rape seed that so many farmers grow these days. Hi-vis yellow against a background of oil rape seed in flower and you are invisible.

As others have said, I think for a project on cycle safety the issue to look at is what causes injury to cyclists and prevent that. If hi-vis was so crucial to being seen by a driver then why aren't pedestrians all being told to wear it. If a driver can't spot a cyclist wearing sensible gear then the issue must lie with the driver not the cyclist.

Ian

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 3:48pm
by Ron
Perhaps you could develop special spectacles which would "see" cyclists, these would be compulsory wear for drivers and have electrodes in the legs which would apply an electric shock across the brain of the driver when his/her vehicle came within range of a cyclist. The message to the brain would change the mood of the driver, making that person considerate of all other road users.

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 4:33pm
by mikeyg123
  • glove/armband indicators that light up with a bright yellow (moving?) chevron when you signal
  • lights that clip to shoes or spd pedals somehow - mentioned already but no-one has done it yet
  • laser that projects a passing line 1.5m out (probably very difficult to keep it in the right place)
  • clothing with electrolumiescent wires in it for extra visibility (even better if it flashes/moves or reacts to something)
  • Device to quickly apply a sticker to the back of a vehicle that passes too close or overtakes immediately before a stationary queue or turning left (what the sicker says is up to you)
  • Also same device to apply a sticker that says "And I promise to signal early" below the ones on lorries that say "do not pass on inside when turning left"

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 9:00pm
by Xilter
Broad day light. High vis fluorescent yellow long sleeve shirt. High vis fluorescent reflective helmet. Reflectors on wheels and peddals. Flashing rear red light. And a van still came up behind and mowed me down. Visibility is NOT and issue. If anything the more high-vis you have, the more like a bull drawn to red motorists become, the issue with cycling safety is Motorists attitude towards anyone doing less than 10mph OVER the speed limit. And their general inability to comprehend the width of their vehicle.

And as much as I had liked the idea of cycling lanes. I went somewhere new last week that had them. They were full of branches grit stones various rubbish. And so poorly surfaced I could not use them.

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 19 Sep 2018, 9:31am
by The utility cyclist
Hi-vis and increases safety
job done

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 19 Sep 2018, 1:21pm
by mjr
rmurphy195 wrote:4) Travelling back from Norfolk one rainy night in the late 60's - almost hit a policeman in the road in an unlit village. He was wearing the uniform of the day - with bright buttons, which I saw as I swerved around him. Thankfully members of the emergency services wear flashing lights/hi vis etc. these days.

Not in Norfolk, they don't. Our police still normally wear black (except when directing traffic), our fire brigade still wear mustard and our ambulance still wear green, although the uniforms now have bits of reflective material on them, such as the sillitoe tartan on the police(blue)/ambulance(green) or the red/white FIRE on the back. Our emergency service casualty rates aren't worse than places that have gone the full space lemon. This is to be expected. Norfolkers tend to be quite independent-minded and do what works.

rmurphy195 wrote:Result - of course I wear light-coloured and sometimes hi-viz clothing. I want to be seen, and I want to be seen for what I am, not mistaken for something else or something distant!

There seems to be a logical disconnect there. People don't wear only light-coloured or hi-viz clothing, so that can easily be mistaken for something else or something distant, rather than a person travelling along the road, unless you're expecting cyclists and walkers to wear light-coloured or hi-viz clothing.

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 19 Sep 2018, 3:18pm
by Cunobelin
meic wrote:There is nothing that we can do about a motorist choosing to ignore our indications, they frequently do ignore them, day and night.
That doesnt mean that we dont have a wish to make those indications easily visible for those who are looking.

The pedal reflectors are our legal requirement, we can hardly criticise the motorists for ignoring their requirements, if we are ignoring our own.


The problems that the law is flawed and impossible to comply with.

If you look at it practically....

Using any form of pannier of rack mounted luggage is illegal
Riding a recumbent is illegal

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 19 Sep 2018, 3:22pm
by Cunobelin
rmurphy195 wrote:Result - of course I wear light-coloured and sometimes hi-viz clothing. I want to be seen, and I want to be seen for what I am, not mistaken for something else or something distant! And I want to be seen in people's peripheral vision, not rely on them looking directly at me. Don't forget, when you are looking directly at one thing you are reliant on your peripheral vision to spot other things.




.. and therein lies another problem, being identified as a cyclist with a significant minority of drivers who fail to act appropriately because it is a cyclist

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 19 Sep 2018, 3:43pm
by gbnz
rmurphy195 wrote:
gbnz wrote:
+1. Only this morning was I looking at Wilko's cheap reflector pedals for winter use (Nb. Wouldn't bother trying to fit reflectors to my shimano spd pedals)


I've put strips of reflective self-adhesive tape on mine.


Does it meet the legal requirements? I'd prefer to have a fully legal bike for that day when I need to pursue my case against the motorist for costs et al

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 19 Sep 2018, 5:42pm
by mjr
gbnz wrote:
rmurphy195 wrote:I've put strips of reflective self-adhesive tape on mine.


Does it meet the legal requirements? I'd prefer to have a fully legal bike for that day when I need to pursue my case against the motorist for costs et al

No, it doesn't, but unless the defendant can show that presence of pedal reflectors would have reduced the damage, which seems very unlikely as long as you have a legal rear light and reflector, then it shouldn't matter.

It's similar to how cyclists can't just ram a vehicle parked illegally in a cycle lane and expect to claim the cost of damages to their bike. Someone else's offence doesn't necessarily excuse their action.

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 19 Sep 2018, 11:19pm
by [XAP]Bob
Cunobelin wrote:
meic wrote:There is nothing that we can do about a motorist choosing to ignore our indications, they frequently do ignore them, day and night.
That doesnt mean that we dont have a wish to make those indications easily visible for those who are looking.

The pedal reflectors are our legal requirement, we can hardly criticise the motorists for ignoring their requirements, if we are ignoring our own.


The problems that the law is flawed and impossible to comply with.

If you look at it practically....

Using any form of pannier of rack mounted luggage is illegal
Riding a recumbent is illegal


Or heels, a muddy ride, a trike, a trailer...

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 1:49am
by horizon
thirdcrank wrote:
If the OP hasn't been frightened off forever, it ought to be possible to help them with some suggestions for the design criteria to do a decent project,


My impression of all these requests is that it is part of the project to undertake surveys, ask for ideas and so forth. It may indeed be that the OP has already accomplished this part of the task simply by posting on here. Given that (AFAIK) we never hear back from the students as to how successful their project was, it's hard to calibrate the level and quantity of our response. At least we get a good discussion out of it.

But my deeper concern is that it is part of his/her project actually to come up with ideas - we are doing their homework for them which I think is called cheating. I still dream that schools and colleges encourage original thinking and that it isn't all marketing and customer research led.

Mind you, I think some of the posters on this thread should get an honorary GCSE for their contributions :wink: .

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 6:57am
by parody
Humans eyesight is tuned to detecting relative motion (being predators). Just think how easy where's wally would be if he was waving at you. So how about a light or other high vis accessory which spins or shakes side to side while flashing enough to "jump" out at the motorist.maybe even only starts and stops when it detects a car.

Re: GCSE Project - Hi-Vis / Safety

Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 1:50pm
by rmurphy195
parody wrote:Humans eyesight is tuned to detecting relative motion (being predators). Just think how easy where's wally would be if he was waving at you. So how about a light or other high vis accessory which spins or shakes side to side while flashing enough to "jump" out at the motorist.maybe even only starts and stops when it detects a car.


Reflective or hi-vis ankles, perhaps?