Route creation software

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Route creation software

Postby PDQ Mobile » 30 Oct 2018, 5:20pm

Mick F wrote:One chevron per road?
Those chevrons told lies.
The up one was much much steeper than the down one, and it got steeper as I climbed, with the sharp right turning even steeper.
You can see it by the contours, but at least I knew I was going to have a tough time of it.

Surely they are there only to inform that there is a section that reaches the specified gradient?
Length of that segment is not given or indeed relavent.
That information is contained in the contour lines.

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meic
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Re: Route creation software

Postby meic » 30 Oct 2018, 5:24pm

cotswolds wrote:
meic wrote:To do this you would need?
Osmand paid version compared to the free version?
An OTG enabled smartphone, something that needs checking with my cheap Alcatel
and a microB to miniB OTG cable.https://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-0-5m-USB ... B00DCZWIY6

and probably more smartphone familiarity and patience than I possess. :lol:

You obviously need an OTG enabled phone - my mid-price 5 year old one does it, I thought most of them did now.

The cable you suggested would do, but I use somethink like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bodhi2000-Micro-Female-Adapter-Android/dp/B0725L1XG5/ref=sr_1_4?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1540917752&sr=1-4&keywords=otg+cable which is cheaper and gives me the same USB socket as on a laptop so I can plug in other things (such as a memory stick) if I want to. I just plug in the garmin lead I use with my laptop.

You need the app "GPS transfer" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.michalbures.garmin.transfer&hl=en_GB which I think costs less than £2. (Because I have it installed, I can't see the price.)

Don't think it requires the paid version of OSMAND. You create the track, save it somewhere, then start GPS transfer, press "choose save folder", find your file and press Connect.

Only ever had reason to do it a few times but it worked without problems. Check the app supports your specific garmin because they vary quite a lot (I think there's a free app to check this before you buy).

Thanks for that. It is good to know that it can be done and how to do it.
I dont get on with Osmand and Smartphones and now I have a Etrex 30 I have plenty of space for tracks in abundance but this is exactly what I needed with my old Etrex Vista.
Yma o Hyd

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Mick F
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Re: Route creation software

Postby Mick F » 30 Oct 2018, 5:30pm

Chevrons are there to give the info about gradient of course.
Single one is 14% to 20%
Double is for more than 20%

Trouble is, some are there as an average of the hill, and some are there specifically, and some are just plain wrong.

Locally, we have an infamous hill. Double chevron at the top end and single chevron at the bottom end.
They are in the wrong places. Single should be at the top, and double at the bottom. OS know, because I've told them, but they haven't done anything about it.
Screen Shot 2018-10-30 at 17.29.23.png
Screen Shot 2018-10-30 at 17.29.23.png (101.75 KiB) Viewed 335 times
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reohn2
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Re: Route creation software

Postby reohn2 » 30 Oct 2018, 5:33pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:reohn2 - Ah, I see. Faulty/missing surface information in OpenStreetMap, which cycle.travel uses as its source data: Crankwood Road was marked as a paved road, while the towpath wasn't marked as paved/gravel. (Generally cycle.travel takes a cautious view, so if a towpath doesn't have surface information it'll steer clear.)

Essentially all online routers use either OpenStreetMap or Google as their routing database. OSM generally has more information relevant to cyclists, but as a volunteer contribution project it's only as good as the local contributors! I've tweaked the surface information from what I could see on the aerial imagery, but hopefully a local will be able to refine it further.


Richard
I didn't realise the was totally voluntary and I'd like to help but don't have the IT skills.
But I can assure anyone that the L&L towpath from Plank Lane to New Springs is well surfaced,most of it being a 2m wide, block paved,with a mile or so being a very good 2m wide gravel path.
Last edited by reohn2 on 30 Oct 2018, 5:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Route creation software

Postby PDQ Mobile » 30 Oct 2018, 5:37pm

Mick F wrote:Chevrons are there to give the info about gradient of course.
Single one is 14% to 20%
Double is for more than 20%

Trouble is, some are there as an average of the hill, and some are there specifically, and some are just plain wrong.

Locally, we have an infamous hill. Double chevron at the top end and single chevron at the bottom end.
They are in the wrong places. Single should be at the top, and double at the bottom. OS know, because I've told them, but they haven't done anything about it.Screen Shot 2018-10-30 at 17.29.23.png

Maybe it's an issue of space on the map?
Not much room for the double at the bottom.
The information is there though i.e. that one will be faces with a rather steep and prolonged hill.

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RickH
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Re: Route creation software

Postby RickH » 30 Oct 2018, 6:02pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:reohn2 - Ah, I see. Faulty/missing surface information in OpenStreetMap, which cycle.travel uses as its source data: Crankwood Road was marked as a paved road, while the towpath wasn't marked as paved/gravel. (Generally cycle.travel takes a cautious view, so if a towpath doesn't have surface information it'll steer clear.)

Essentially all online routers use either OpenStreetMap or Google as their routing database. OSM generally has more information relevant to cyclists, but as a volunteer contribution project it's only as good as the local contributors! I've tweaked the surface information from what I could see on the aerial imagery, but hopefully a local will be able to refine it further.

I've added the "gravel" surface tag to a couple of bits of the towpath towards Wigan that were unmarked in OSM so that should help encouraging routing along the canal. :D

I've also graded a couple of section that are marked route 55 south of Hindley & Hindley Green as "mud" as that is an appropriate tag. They were dry when I tried them in the middle of the summer's heatwave but I could tell that wasn't their normal surface consitency.

I'd seen Crankwood Road on the map & wondered what it was like - Streetview has covered the tarmac bits but no indication of what the intervening bits are like, The Ordnance Survey mapping just has a white road which could mean anything.

sjs
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Re: Route creation software

Postby sjs » 30 Oct 2018, 6:10pm

cotswolds wrote:You need the app "GPS transfer" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.michalbures.garmin.transfer&hl=en_GB which I think costs less than £2. (Because I have it installed, I can't see the price.)

Don't think it requires the paid version of OSMAND. You create the track, save it somewhere, then start GPS transfer, press "choose save folder", find your file and press Connect.

Only ever had reason to do it a few times but it worked without problems. Check the app supports your specific garmin because they vary quite a lot (I think there's a free app to check this before you buy).


You don't need the specific GPS transfer app. A general file manager will do the job. I managed to transfer a gpx to a garmin Oregon that way once, as a proof of feasibility. Though IIRC it was a bit of a hassle getting the file manager to find both the SD card and the internal storage on the Oregon.

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Re: Route creation software

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 30 Oct 2018, 6:22pm

RickH wrote:I'd seen Crankwood Road on the map & wondered what it was like - Streetview has covered the tarmac bits but no indication of what the intervening bits are like, The Ordnance Survey mapping just has a white road which could mean anything.


Here's Geograph: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/115418
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides

reohn2
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Re: Route creation software

Postby reohn2 » 30 Oct 2018, 6:40pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
RickH wrote:I'd seen Crankwood Road on the map & wondered what it was like - Streetview has covered the tarmac bits but no indication of what the intervening bits are like, The Ordnance Survey mapping just has a white road which could mean anything.


Here's Geograph: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/115418

That's a good bit :shock:
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cotswolds
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Re: Route creation software

Postby cotswolds » 31 Oct 2018, 7:43am

sjs wrote:
cotswolds wrote:You need the app "GPS transfer" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.michalbures.garmin.transfer&hl=en_GB which I think costs less than £2. (Because I have it installed, I can't see the price.)

Don't think it requires the paid version of OSMAND. You create the track, save it somewhere, then start GPS transfer, press "choose save folder", find your file and press Connect.

Only ever had reason to do it a few times but it worked without problems. Check the app supports your specific garmin because they vary quite a lot (I think there's a free app to check this before you buy).


You don't need the specific GPS transfer app. A general file manager will do the job. I managed to transfer a gpx to a garmin Oregon that way once, as a proof of feasibility. Though IIRC it was a bit of a hassle getting the file manager to find both the SD card and the internal storage on the Oregon.


Not true for all garmins. It's easy to put tracks in to my etrex with a file manager, but the garmin ignores them. To get them recognised by the garmin, they need to go in through a garmin specific protocol. Same applies when transferring from a PC - I can't just use file manager, I need to use garmin software, firefox plugin, or similar. It's why the trick of taking the memory card out and using a card reader doesn't work either.

Not sure if all newer garmins are better in this respect - I hope so.

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meic
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Re: Route creation software

Postby meic » 31 Oct 2018, 8:09am

Not true for all garmins. It's easy to put tracks in to my etrex with a file manager, but the garmin ignores them.

I have had that with my Etrex 30 on my PC but on other occasions it does work. I can not figure out why it sometimes does and sometimes doesnt.
To get them recognised by the garmin, they need to go in through a garmin specific protocol.

Oddly Basecamp transfers to my Etrex 30 are totally unreliable, in fact I cant remember if they have ever worked. Yet they were easy and totally reliable with the Vista. :roll:
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sjs
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Re: Route creation software

Postby sjs » 31 Oct 2018, 9:18am

meic wrote:
Not true for all garmins. It's easy to put tracks in to my etrex with a file manager, but the garmin ignores them.

I have had that with my Etrex 30 on my PC but on other occasions it does work. I can not figure out why it sometimes does and sometimes doesnt.
To get them recognised by the garmin, they need to go in through a garmin specific protocol.

Oddly Basecamp transfers to my Etrex 30 are totally unreliable, in fact I cant remember if they have ever worked. Yet they were easy and totally reliable with the Vista. :roll:


I must have been lucky with my choice of an Oregon 450, which in most respects is similar to an Etrex 20/30. It is quite sensitive to the source of the gpx, but not to the manner of its transfer to the gadget. Sometimes I have to filter a track via bikehike or gpsbabel if the Oregon objects to some aspect of the original content, but otherwise it is reliable.

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Mick F
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Re: Route creation software

Postby Mick F » 31 Oct 2018, 11:25am

I had an Edge305, then an Edge705 .............. and now a Montana and an Edge20.
All had their files transferred by USB and Finder in my Macs. Never an issue.

Montana needs them in the GPX folder and Edge20 into New Files folder. Edge20 will only accept Garmin FIT files.
Just drag and drop into them from anywhere on my computer.
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Mick F
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Re: Route creation software

Postby Mick F » 2 Nov 2018, 2:58pm

Went down a hill today with warning triangle at the top that it was 20%.
Should have had a double chevron on the OS map, but there were none.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.48412 ... 312!8i6656
Screen Shot 2018-11-02 at 14.56.27.png
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philvantwo
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Re: Route creation software

Postby philvantwo » 2 Nov 2018, 3:33pm

I can't see a double chevron Mick F!
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