Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Witterings
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Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby Witterings » 19 Dec 2018, 10:31pm

I'm trying to find something apart from MTB type mudguards that don't affect tyre clearance on a gravel bike and will take tyres possibly up to 45c.

The biggest issue I'd have is where they'd pass underneath the fork / seat stay at the mounting point which would limit the tyre I could fit in terms of height.

I don't mind not using the mounting points and going for something like these but they're only up to 32c
https://www.evanscycles.com/sks-racebla ... c-EV286431

I was also looking at these and wonder if they attach to the mounting point but don't actually pass under the forks
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.XLC-Mudguard-S ... 126334.htm

But again they're max tyre width of 35mm

Be really appreciated if anybody knows of any alternatives I could look at??

ANTONISH
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby ANTONISH » 20 Dec 2018, 8:55am

Race blades go up to but not under the rear brake, so they can give good tyre clearance.
I use them for touring if I need to pack my bike down to a small size for air or train travel.
I put a short section of scrap mudguard at the back of the down tube - using cable ties this gives an almost complete conventional mudguard protection.
I don't have it under the rear brake so I get maximum clearance. Obviously the rear brake is unprotected - but then I find with conventional guards that in the rain mud and grit drips onto the brake blocks. Nothing is perfect.
You would need to consider toe overlap for the front mudguard clearance.

reohn2
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby reohn2 » 20 Dec 2018, 9:23am

Race blades IMO are an accident waiting to happen and are wholly inappropriate for any kind of cycling let alone any kind of gravel road riding.
I know that many people who use them will have a pop at that statement but I stand by it.

What bike are you thinking of fitting mudguards to?
Last edited by reohn2 on 20 Dec 2018, 1:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
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peetee
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby peetee » 20 Dec 2018, 9:32am

If you are handy with tools and a vice there is no reason why you couldn't adapt a conventional full length chromoplastic mudguard by cutting it at the bridge and inserting a suitably bent piece of stainless steel plate so the guard passes 'through' the frame bridge and the plate goes up and over and attaches to it. A pannier rack seat stay mounting plate that has a long slot would be ideal.
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

Brucey
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby Brucey » 20 Dec 2018, 10:32am

obviously anything that passes through the fork or between the seat stays reduces the clearance available. The best way of getting a lot of clearance is to buy the right bike (for the tyres you intend to use) in the first place.

It is best to measure up yourself; manufacturers will say 'up to XXmm tyres' on gravel bikes but they will almost certainly mean without mudguards and perhaps with stupid fag-paper clearances even then. Remember these are mainly aimed at those wanting to tackle the odd (dry) rough track when the weather is nice; they are (unlike CX bikes) not really meant for mud. In fact I would say that the average 'gravel bike' looks like it ought to be 'completely hopeless' in any muddy conditions; doesn't stop people from buying them though..... :shock:

If you are stuck with a bike with inadequate clearances (for the tyres you want to use) then you have to make do somehow. On road bikes you can use mudguards like this

Image

-which are made by Giant for use on Giant Defy bikes. [Which rather begs the question why they didn't just make the clearances bigger in the first place but lets not go into that..... :roll: :roll: ] Anyway like other 'bypass brackets' (which go over or through the seatstay brace for example) there is a hole in the mudguard so muck can get through. So they are less effective than normal. But in this case the bracket sits in the corner of the space and offers no obstruction to the tyre at all, provided the space available is slightly squarer than the tyre is. I'm sure you could do something similar with wide mudguards on a gravel bike.

No-one makes anything like this (AFAIK) for a gravel bike because (unlike a road bike perhaps where there is a restricted range of compatible calipers with the right MA) there is no real reason for ending up with a bike that won't accept the tyres you want to use and no clearance.

cheers
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pwa
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby pwa » 20 Dec 2018, 10:40am

If you have to you can saw off the forward section of a front guard so that it ends at the rear of the fork crown. That allows the guard to do most of what a full guard would do. But you are still going to have to work out whether there is room between toes and selected tyres for a guard without toes hitting the guard.

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gaz
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby gaz » 20 Dec 2018, 10:40am

peetee wrote:If you are handy with tools and a vice ... A pannier rack seat stay mounting plate that has a long slot would be ideal.

http://www.naomida.com/play/stuff/2013/ ... road-bike/

peetee
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby peetee » 20 Dec 2018, 10:50am

gaz wrote:
peetee wrote:If you are handy with tools and a vice ... A pannier rack seat stay mounting plate that has a long slot would be ideal.

http://www.naomida.com/play/stuff/2013/ ... road-bike/


Exactly, although I meant to mention that I was thinking of disc brake bikes. Anything with caliper brakes should be protected as the pivots will deteriorate in short order. I see a lot of dual pivot caliper bikes that have been ridden mudguard-less in poor weather and the brakes are appalling.
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

Brucey
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby Brucey » 20 Dec 2018, 11:22am

peetee wrote:... I see a lot of dual pivot caliper bikes that have been ridden mudguard-less in poor weather and the brakes are appalling.


yeah, no kidding. In terms of a cost-effective repair (at workshop labour rates anyway), often the best solution is to fit new calipers, even though the old calipers ought to be fixable.

A lot of cheaper DP brakes have polymer bushes and these seem to swell up and go draggy (I suspect the bushes swell when lubricated, but they seize up without lube worse than that, so what choice do you have...?). Often the barrel adjuster is seized/damaged, the centre pivot is seized (and the bolt cannot be moved without further damage), the spring is rusty, and the offset pivot is worn. Any one problem could perhaps be resolved in a timely fashion but in toto the thing is a dead loss, even if the brake blocks are not worn out yet (which they usually are...).

cheers
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peetee
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby peetee » 20 Dec 2018, 12:10pm

It always has depended which club you ride with as to whether you are top billing on the Wall Of Shame because you ride the winter months with guards or no guards. :D :roll:
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

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RickH
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby RickH » 21 Dec 2018, 2:51pm

What sort of brakes do you have & where is the least clearance (forks, seatstays, chainstays &, very occasionally, back of seat ube) it can vary from frame to frame. As others have said some fettling to a normal guard may be possible to help with clearances.

Witterings
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby Witterings » 21 Dec 2018, 3:45pm

peetee wrote:If you are handy with tools and a vice there is no reason why you couldn't adapt a conventional full length chromoplastic mudguard by cutting it at the bridge and inserting a suitably bent piece of stainless steel plate so the guard passes 'through' the frame bridge and the plate goes up and over and attaches to it. A pannier rack seat stay mounting plate that has a long slot would be ideal.


I managed to start this thread, then got buried at work and straight out from work last night ... apologies if it seemed like I was ignoring replies.

I had wondered if the above was maybe an option which I'll probably look into more as I can't really see other alternatives at the moment, I had looked at the Raceblade Pro XL but they're only up to tyre width 35mm and I'm currently running 38's and may go to 43's at some stage.

The bikes a Merida Silex 400 so disc brakes and can take up to 42/43mm tyres, limitation will be between the top of the tyre and the say forks / seat stays

Brucey ... I had a look at the Defy ones but they're only up to 25mm tyre.

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TrevA
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby TrevA » 21 Dec 2018, 4:36pm

Brucey wrote:obviously anything that passes through the fork or between the seat stays reduces the clearance available. The best way of getting a lot of clearance is to buy the right bike (for the tyres you intend to use) in the first place.

It is best to measure up yourself; manufacturers will say 'up to XXmm tyres' on gravel bikes but they will almost certainly mean without mudguards and perhaps with stupid fag-paper clearances even then. Remember these are mainly aimed at those wanting to tackle the odd (dry) rough track when the weather is nice; they are (unlike CX bikes) not really meant for mud. In fact I would say that the average 'gravel bike' looks like it ought to be 'completely hopeless' in any muddy conditions; doesn't stop people from buying them though..... :shock:

If you are stuck with a bike with inadequate clearances (for the tyres you want to use) then you have to make do somehow. On road bikes you can use mudguards like this

Image

-which are made by Giant for use on Giant Defy bikes. [Which rather begs the question why they didn't just make the clearances bigger in the first place but lets not go into that..... :roll: :roll: ] Anyway like other 'bypass brackets' (which go over or through the seatstay brace for example) there is a hole in the mudguard so muck can get through. So they are less effective than normal. But in this case the bracket sits in the corner of the space and offers no obstruction to the tyre at all, provided the space available is slightly squarer than the tyre is. I'm sure you could do something similar with wide mudguards on a gravel bike.

No-one makes anything like this (AFAIK) for a gravel bike because (unlike a road bike perhaps where there is a restricted range of compatible calipers with the right MA) there is no real reason for ending up with a bike that won't accept the tyres you want to use and no clearance.

cheers


My wife had some of those Giant mudguards on her Trek Lexa. Yes, they give good clearance under the brakes, but they wobble as you are riding along - the plastic used is not rigid enough. They wobble/vibrate so much that they touch the tyre on the rear wheel. A good idea, badly executed.

Brucey
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby Brucey » 21 Dec 2018, 5:15pm

Witterings wrote:
Brucey ... I had a look at the Defy ones but they're only up to 25mm tyre.


indeed, which is why I said 'on road bikes you can use....' and I suggested that you could make something similar rather than suggested that you buy some; as Trev A notes they are a good idea but imperfectly executed.

In fairness any mudguard that sits very close to the tyre is liable to wobble and rub; possible exceptions include Salmon mudguards, (which use a bridge over the rear brake in close-clearance road bike form) but there are those who say that they are so strong that if you do get a tangle, the results are invariably terrible, with the mudguard stopping the wheel instead of shattering.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/document/migrated/article/garde-bouesalmon2008.pdf

cheers
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ChrisF
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Re: Mudguards That Don't Affect Tyre Clearance - Gravel Bike

Postby ChrisF » 24 Dec 2018, 4:22pm

Witterings wrote:The bikes a Merida Silex 400 so disc brakes and can take up to 42/43mm tyres, limitation will be between the top of the tyre and the say forks / seat stays

If it has disc brakes then the height of the guards (as you orginaly posted) isn't really an issue, is it? You should be able to fit the widest guards that will fit between your forks / seat stays. Pushed up against the relevant bit of frame, wider mudguards aren't really any thicker than narrower ones.
I've just fitted these guards https://www.vanillabikes.com/products/m-part-commute-full-length-mudguards-700-x-46mm to a carbon frame gravel bike with 35mm tyres; they're 46mm but there would have been room for 55mm whch are also available. The limiting factor, though, was toe clearance. With a bigger tyre the rear of the front guard would catch on my shoes an unacceptable amount.
Chris F, Cornwall