SA hub

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Patrickpioneer
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SA hub

Postby Patrickpioneer » 31 Jan 2019, 3:27pm

If a SA hub says 8 06 is that a 2006 hub? its got me foxed
thanks
Pat

rjb
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Re: SA hub

Postby rjb » 31 Jan 2019, 3:58pm

That's how they were identified so yours was made in August 2006. Usually stamped on the hubshell.
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

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Patrickpioneer
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Re: SA hub

Postby Patrickpioneer » 31 Jan 2019, 4:22pm

rjb wrote:That's how they were identified so yours was made in August 2006. Usually stamped on the hubshell.


Thanks, that was what i was thinking but had a slight brain fugue :D
just bought a rusty 3 speed bike, and I don't need another bike!
Pat

Brucey
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Re: SA hub

Postby Brucey » 31 Jan 2019, 5:57pm

Re Sturmey Archer date marks: since production resumed in ~2002 in Taiwan, I have not seen the 'old' style of hub marking used. The latest date I have seen so marked has been early 2000 which is when SA shut the plant in Nottingham. The exact style of marking on steel hubshells varied over the years but (say) '87-3' means march 1987 and the style of marking was fairly consistent from the mid '80s until 2000. Much older hubs had no '-' and the markings were different in other ways too. Aluminium shells produced in Nottingham seem to have had a printed date (which can rub off fairly easily) in the form 9/97 for month and year.

In the Taiwan-made hubs there is a different date code type which is an ink-jetted four-digit code. This comprises of three letters then a number, in a dot matrix typeface about 4mm high. There are similar ( often not identical) but separate marks on both hubshells and brake plates. On the brake plate the mark is usually alongside the ridge that marks the approximate maximum travel of the cam lever. These marks are often absent on well-used parts; they come off easily with polishing or certain solvents.

I don't know this for sure but the best guess for the 'new' marking scheme is thus:

First digit: Indicates year of manufacture, with A=2001 so (say) 2019 would be 'S' (I have seen F,H,I,J,K,L,N, used)
Second digit: Indicates month of manufacture so can vary from A (jan) to L (dec). [I have seen most letters up to and including L]
Third digit: unknown meaning. A letter, from an unknown range. [I have seen A, B,C,D]
Fourth digit: unknown meaning; a number from 0 to 9 [I have seen 0,1,2,3,4,5,7,9]

Alloy hubs bear either a 'sturmey archer' logo in italic font (with a kind of swoosh in it; this logo first appeared in the 1970s I think) or a 'sturmey archer' logo in rectangular box (which is actually a recreation of a much older logo from the 1950s). Hubs with a year code 'I' or before seem to have the italic logo and hubs with a year code 'J' or higher seem to have have the box logo.

Cast parts with hidden unmachined areas (brake shoes, brake plates, brake hubs) often bear cast-in marks which appear to be date marks too. I have not attempted to crack this code.

in 2012 I bought about half a dozen new hubs (of various types) at the same time and they turned up with mostly 'K' as the first digit which would correspond with 2011. The second digits included H and L which would correspond with September and December; (usually this is the same between the brake plate and the hubshell, but I have also seen examples where it isn't, quite). The third and fourth digits didn't seem to follow much of a pattern but must have some significance.

Like I say the above is my best guess to date; if we pool information we may be able to better crack the code.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 1 Feb 2019, 10:05am, edited 1 time in total.
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Patrickpioneer
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Re: SA hub

Postby Patrickpioneer » 1 Feb 2019, 9:38am

So the hub dating is not as simple as it seems. The bike I have is a re badge Raleigh, BSA metro. Its quite 'modern' to me with its square tapper BB which is why I bought it so I can change the front ring from one in my junk box, this will then suit the hills where I live better (my back door is ten foot above the garden while the front door is level with the road)
Its now lost first gear so time to get the spanners out, I think its gummed up and corrosion?
I love having a project.
Pat

Brucey
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Re: SA hub

Postby Brucey » 1 Feb 2019, 9:48am

like this...?

Image

those bikes were made in the late 1980s. Is it possible that your marks are actually 90 -8 for sept 1990?

If you have lost first gear then the reason is usually that the low gear drive pawls are not working. It could just be adjustment. If the pawls are merely sticky, they may recover if some oil is added to the hub. However they may be damaged or the pawl springs may need to be replaced.

cheers
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Patrickpioneer
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Re: SA hub

Postby Patrickpioneer » 1 Feb 2019, 3:32pm

That's the one, exact model, When i first seen it I was thinking nineties but older is better, its hardly been used, just neglected by the look of the chain. I have put oil in the hub and by the state of the brown rusty looking muck coming out it needs a strip down, well a total strip of the bike is called for really but the poor thing is growing on me
thanks Bruce
Pat
and I just checked, I was reading the date code upside down :lol:

Brucey
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Re: SA hub

Postby Brucey » 1 Feb 2019, 4:57pm

your hub should look like this inside;

Image

The low gear drive pawls are the ones on the left side of the hub, and if the hub is corroded inside, the 'R' springs (of which there are four in total) and the ring bearing are the first things to fail. Often the corrosion is worse at one end of the hub than the other.

BTW the illustration above is very good but contains several things that are a bit misleading; you might infer that the low gear pawl pins are fitted with the tapered end leftwards (or that the pawls are reversed); this is not the case. Other errors include that the toggle key is upside down, and the wrong lock washer is fitted on the RHS of the hub between a locknut and the cone; the one pictured is to be fitted to the LHS of the hub and the correct one (not present) has two tabs which absolutely prevent the RH cone from rotating (which if it happens soon wrecks the hub). The 'R' springs on the high gear pawls are mirror images of the real thing. Finally although the track nuts are present, there are no washers for the track nuts and no NTWs of any kind.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: SA hub

Postby Brucey » 1 Feb 2019, 8:58pm

Sturmey Archer date marks; some pictures might help.

Image
alloy shelled AC hub from december 1950

Image
1966 hubshell for coaster brake. Most post-war hubshells are marked in this style up to some time in the early 1970s

Image
1997 hub in last style used in Nottingham (steel shells only), used in the 80's and 90's

Image
Taiwan-made SA hub showing date mark 'HHB4'

Note that the BWR hub is still fitted with the correct RH lockwasher; it is physically impossible to assemble a hub with the BWR driver unless this part is fitted, because the RH cone is in a recess. That they still make this lockwasher makes it all the more maddening that they don't bother to fit it to their other hubs..... :roll: :roll:

Image
SA brake plate with date code 'IKA3'

Image
SA brake plates with date codes 'MCD0' and 'LBA2'

Image
cast in marks ABCD - 0124 inside brake drum

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 3 Feb 2019, 5:08am, edited 2 times in total.
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Patrickpioneer
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Re: SA hub

Postby Patrickpioneer » 2 Feb 2019, 4:06pm

Thanks again Bruce, I have saved this page to my HD. My hub is definitely sick inside, but its all fun to me.
Take care
Pat

Brucey
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Re: SA hub

Postby Brucey » 2 Feb 2019, 9:03pm

Image
1937-2001 style non NIG AW, with correct lockwashers etc

Image
FW four speed. Very similar internally to S5 five speed. Some AW hubshells accept FW or S5 internals

cheers
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Patrickpioneer
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Re: SA hub

Postby Patrickpioneer » 3 Feb 2019, 2:37pm

After my ride in the cold this morning (lots of ice still about) I took the hub apart. the low drive pawls are stuck so nothing major. I bet if the hub was an older one that was oil lubed this may not have happened? One other point to mention who ever had the bike before had put one of the anti turn washers around the wrong way on the axle,
take care
Pat

Brucey
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Re: SA hub

Postby Brucey » 3 Feb 2019, 3:35pm

you can run SA hubs in oil even if they don't have an oil port; you just need an oil can that is capable of delivering oil through the hollow axle. Just set it in top gear, take the indicator rod out, and add the oil. It gets rather messy if you add too much.

If the hub is already greased, you will make your own SFG inside the hub, which is no bad thing.

BTW NTWs can go between the hub and the dropout or between the track nut and the dropout. In fact the moulded type (rather than the pressed steel type) are better off on the inside face of the dropout, because they are brittle and somewhat apt to crack in half if the track nuts are tightened against them directly.

Image
HMW155 moulded lockwasher (NTW)

Image
HMW494 moulded lockwasher (NTW) for 9.5mm dropouts

Image
Brompton kit containing a choice of lockwashers including pressed steel ones which are OK on the outside of the dropouts, i.e. with the track nuts bearing directly against them.

cheers
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PJ520
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Re: SA hub

Postby PJ520 » 12 Feb 2019, 5:30am

You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West

Samuel D
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Re: SA hub

Postby Samuel D » 12 Feb 2019, 11:35am

PJ520 wrote:This of use? https://youtu.be/vNxwMwzS3Jo

Had a look. Useful for showing the innards and more or less what to do, but the way he sets the preload on the bearings, the use of a hammer and punch in lieu of a ball ring spanner, and the casual approach to dirt during assembly did not fill me with joy. I suppose a million Sturmey-Archer hubs have seen similar treatment over the last century.