UK law on brakes

[Mick F]

Excellent!

Thank you!

[reohn2]

You could have a 1:2 gearbox on the pedal axle and halve the wheel diameter. It couldn't be beyond the wit of the Victorians to do that considering the wonderful technological advancements in that age

Which is what the Crypto company did in the early 1890s https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Geared_Ordinary_Bicycle which culminated a couple of years later with the Bantam. https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Bantam_Bicycle Perhaps the materials or manufacturing process wasn't there jus ta few years earlier.

Which is more than likely,they knew what chains were though

[pete75]

I understand too, but what I don't understand, is what you don't understand as well.

You could have a 1:2 gearbox on the pedal axle and halve the wheel diameter. It couldn't be beyond the wit of the Victorians to do that considering the wonderful technological advancements in that age.

Maybe it wasn't a "couldn't" ....... but a desire to make these things "amazing" instead ............ due to them being in a niche market for the well-to-do rather than for the man in the street.

Same principal as the Schlumpf mountain drive I suppose.

[drossall]

I understand why,but always seems to incredible to me they never though of gearing opposed the ridiculous huge wheel and all the problems that came with it

Go and look at a cycle museum with a good collection of pre-1900 machines. They did think of it, but working out how to implement it in an efficient and reliable way took a lot of trial and error, and a whole load of blind alleys (which is what will be in the cycle museum) before they came up with the chain drive as the solution.

Remember it had not been done before. The learning from building bikes with features such as gearing, brakes and (for trikes) differentials was then applied to early motor vehicles, many of which were built by cycle manufacturers.

[9494arnold]

I agree . Come and have a look at The National Cycle Museum in WAles ( check the website or give us a call to confirm opening)

Material quality was something of an issue I belive from machines I have seen and as you say , much trial and error. The high wheeler era was quite a short period of time, earlier machines had plain bearings that had to be regularly oiled ( I mean 2 or 3 times or more an outing I am told by an owner , later ones (like mine) have ball bearings, Early transmission is ingenious but it is also very heavy .

And I believe that if your bike is older than the legislation, you don't have to comply.

The brakes on pedal cycles regs USED to talk about Wheel Size , but the Moulton meant that had to be changed to relative saddle height.

[gxaustin]

Which is what the Crypto company did in the early 1890s https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Geared_Ordinary_Bicycle which culminated a couple of years later with the Bantam. https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Bantam_Bicycle Perhaps the materials or manufacturing process wasn't there jus ta few years earlier.

Or maybe people realised you could sit further back on a rear drive cycle and be less likely to do a header when braking down hill. Wasn't there a big wheeled bike with the small wheel on the front just for this reason?
Is an ordinary capable of tight turns? Doesn't the wheel hit one's leg? A mate has restored one but I'm not about to try it to find out

See also: Ordinary, An account of the rediscovery, restoration, research and riding of an Ordinary bicycle from 1988 to 1991 with subsequent thoughts. by John Bradshaw. Since this book was published in 2013, but relates to use up to 1991, I assume the author decided he'd sooner stay in one piece after the novelty wore off

[Brucey]

'star' safety bicycle



with treadle drive, which has the effect of allowing the saddle to be further forwards.


doubtless you would be arrested (or shot) for trying this today

There were similar machines with pedal drive




which look as if they would tip over backwards when riding uphill.

cheers

[reohn2]

I understand why,but always seems to incredible to me they never though of gearing opposed the ridiculous huge wheel and all the problems that came with it

Go and look at a cycle museum with a good collection of pre-1900 machines. They did think of it, but working out how to implement it in an efficient and reliable way took a lot of trial and error, and a whole load of blind alleys (which is what will be in the cycle museum) before they came up with the chain drive as the solution.

Remember it had not been done before. The learning from building bikes with features such as gearing, brakes and (for trikes) differentials was then applied to early motor vehicles, many of which were built by cycle manufacturers.

I'm well aware of the history,I just find quite unusual they evolved into the monsters such as Ordinaries,it's as if there were a blind spot the couldn't see.
I think it was a 'man' thing and horse riding may have had something to do with the riding position,it seems when women wanted to cycle thing's happened for the better and the Ordinaries were consigned to the dustbin of time.It's no surprise the Starley was called the safety bicycle.
The von Drais was the blue print that was wandered away from in search of speed when the answer was gearing which is something else they were aware of back then.
There's a lot of stuff that was believed without any scientific foundation,especially in cycling.

[drossall]

And I think that you're just under-estimating the level of Starley's achievement in producing the first workable, geared safety bicycle, without the 20:20 hindsight that we have in looking at the solution If it was that easy, it would have been done before, as you suggest.

[reohn2]

'star' safety bicycle



with treadle drive, which has the effect of allowing the saddle to be further forwards.


doubtless you would be arrested (or shot) for trying this today

There were similar machines with pedal drive




which look as if they would tip over backwards when riding uphill.

cheers

What about the front wheel in a pothole

[reohn2]

And I think that you're just under-estimating the level of Starley's achievement in producing the first workable, geared safety bicycle, without the 20:20 hindsight that we have in looking at the solution If it was that easy, it would have been done before, as you suggest.

I'm not saying it was easy but there's a lot of prejudice about which still persists today,take the belief in narrow high pressure tyres being faster for example.
I'm we got where we are

[Brucey]

in fairness a chain drive wasn't really practical at first because

a) the chains were a bit crap (roller chains came later) and
b) bearings were very crap.
c) the small wheels didn't roll that well without pneumatic tyres

At first the added drag and commotion of the extra bearings and chain in a safety bicycle put a lot of people off; when the bearings were mostly just bushings, it was rightly felt that the fewer of them, the better. Note also that part of the appeal for some folk was that cycling was dangerous; for a few years ordinaries were the fastest thing (of any kind) on the roads; the last thing some of these tearaways wanted was to make it safer…..

Developments in bicycles stimulated developments in the manufacturing of (amongst other things)

- thin-walled steel tubing
- ball bearings
- high strength steels
- Roller-type chains
- pneumatic tyres
- the tension spoke wheel
- light alloys
- freewheel mechanisms
- planetary gearing

The safety bicycle didn't make entirely good sense without most or all these things; however once they were in place (at a reasonable cost) the conditions were ripe for a bike boom; they literally couldn't make bikes quickly enough in the 1890s and with that manufacturing base in place, it became possible to think about making motor cars and aircraft; without the humble bicycle the car and the aircraft would have been delayed by decades. One of the earliest cars (Benz) was mostly built using actual bicycle parts in the chassis. Without campaigning of the CTC in the UK and LAW in the USA, early cars wouldn't have had decent roads to drive on, either.

cheers