A reasonable walking GPS that's good for cycling too?

[Tangled Metal]

There are a lot of negativity on both sides. It's personal choice. Can we all respect that?

From my point of view I probably didn't make things clear enough. If I had this would not be a source of division. So I'll clarify without fuelling things by giving my reasons.

I'm looking for advice on stand alone GPS units that carry out that function and no other like phone communication. I'm looking for replaceable batteries with standard batteries being used. AA is just fine whether 2 or 3 does not matter to me. I want to get bundled OS mapping as it saves money. I'd like an electronic 3 axis compass that works without moving. It seems touch 35 or Montana units fit those requirements the closest. Possibly etrex 30x but I'm not sure it comes erith bundled os and 3 axis compass. 20x doesn't and that and touch 25 don't have the compass in hoping for I believe.

Any other recommendations that I've missed that meet these clarified requirements?

To free flow, and others in conflict, I think my lack of clarity might have been at fault. Perhaps this new post might help.

[Tangled Metal]

I got turned off dedicated GPS due to the internal contacts between the battery and electronics in my then Garmin 305 started fatiguing which led to disconnections everytime I went over a bumpy bit of the road, and by being tied into a specific website to upload routes to a Bryton 650(?).

A personal experience that colours your pov. To counter that mine is smartphone batteries that start to struggle with even normal phone use for a day without charging after about 18 months use. It took about 3 years with Samsung galaxy s2 before i replaced the battery for another year of use. Then an LG G2 18 months battery was probably 75% of its original performance. After 3 years it lasted half a day.

I'm on a Huawei honor 8 with iirc 3200mah battery. Now 2 or 3 years old and I doubt it's at 50% of original battery performance. If I'm using GPS on it the battery loses a percentage about every 5 minutes at a guess if not worse.

It is my experience that phone batteries are simply designed in with any 2 year's before obsolescence. It perhaps that's not the right word.

We all have our experiences but despite that I personally am only trying to find out if there's anything good in GPS only units out there. Anything other than Garmin worth looking at?

[thelawnet]

Torrential monsoon rain
No phone signal

Very likely no GPS signal either.

Another time the problem was a faulty power bank in the middle of nowhere with no idea the right way out and a flat phone.

Just like finding out you forgot to pack your spare batteries.

but IME when there is rain and sweat even unlocking a phone is very difficult.

And a paper map is immune to these conditions, how?

I don't use paper maps.

I'm just sharing my experiences. I will continue to use a phone for GPS, I have mitigated against some of these things.

I recommend:

* a phone with a very big battery
* multiple GPS apps with offline maps
* a waterproof phone mount
* affordable phone (none of this Samsung Galaxy or Iphone stuff)
* powerbank

BTW there is not that much correlation between GPS signal and phone signal. GPS is from satellites 20,000 km above the earth, while phone signal use towers within a few dozen km.

You can get GPS 1000km from the nearest habitation, but phone signal obviously not so much. GPS signal can be blocked, but it is far more reliable than phone signal. Relying on online maps is not great. (Of course if you are just cycling to Brighton or whatever then it's not so much of an issue)

I don't like dedicated GPS gadgets very much because they are proprietary, require their own batteries, charging, often limited/basic hardware compared to a phone. I have a couple of Garmins but I am not really a fan.

[pwa]

This is a screen shot from my Montana with the OS map.
Screen size is 4" tall. ie a bit bigger than the size here.
Screen Shot.jpg

Ideal for cycling but not for walking. You don't get the hedges on 50k.

BUT for someone also packing an Explorer 25k paper map it would work. Paper map for the detail, GPS to confirm where you are on the paper map. I've done it and it works. You just have more stuff in your hands.

[Mick F]

You can get 1:25k but they're expensive.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/562503
£350 for the SD card.

If I were to buy one, I'd find four people who wanted a copy each. Download it for the full price, copy it, and sell them at £70 each. Find five, and the price drops below £60 each.

[Samuel D]

If I were to buy one, I'd find four people who wanted a copy each. Download it for the full price, copy it, and sell them at £70 each. Find five, and the price drops below £60 each.

Even better, just nick five TOPO Great Britain PRO SD cards from a high-street shop. Then everyone would have a legit copy.

[pwa]

You can get 1:25k but they're expensive.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/562503
£350 for the SD card.

If I were to buy one, I'd find four people who wanted a copy each. Download it for the full price, copy it, and sell them at £70 each. Find five, and the price drops below £60 each.

Naughty boy! We'll pretend you never said that. But I reckon TM could make do with the 50k map and just back it up with a good old paper map for detail. And have a very good cycle GPS.

[Tangled Metal]

I don't like dedicated GPS gadgets very much because they are proprietary, require their own batteries, charging, often limited/basic hardware compared to a phone. I have a couple of Garmins but I am not really a fan.

All the ones I've been looking at use AA batteries. Whilst rechargeable batteries are an option you don't have to use them. Any AA batteries picked up on route will work. 2 or 3 spare batteries don't weigh much.

I don't follow the proprietary comment. Do you mean Garmin basecamp to create and upload routes from? How is that significantly different from using any route creation app?

If phone use is such a durable solution you'd get explorers using them too. I bet you don't get many choosing their s10 for a polar exploration trip. Sorry if that's facetious comment but dedicated GPS units are more durable and reliable.

But at mentioned last night, this debate is pointless. I asked for dedicated GPS units not phones. I clarified it to make sure it was clear. Why is it necessary to keep trying to push phone solutions? Have I got all the relevant advice I'm going to get on dedicated GPS units? Montana if money to spend, 20x good for less money. Anything else on dedicated GPS units you'd recommend? Any views on other makes? Just not worth looking at anything except Garmin? What happened to magellan?

[pwa]

I was watching a small news item on TV a few weeks back in which someone from a mountain rescue team was blaming reliance on phones for navigation for an increase in callouts for folk lost on the fells. Mind you, even a dedicated GPS unit isn't something I would want to rely on alone in poor visibility in a properly remote spot.

My ancient Satmap unit is now running on AAs (it has a dedicated rechargeable lithium alternative in the box) but if you want to have long run times the lithium AAs are best. Not cheap though.

[thelawnet]

I don't like dedicated GPS gadgets very much because they are proprietary, require their own batteries, charging, often limited/basic hardware compared to a phone. I have a couple of Garmins but I am not really a fan.

All the ones I've been looking at use AA batteries. Whilst rechargeable batteries are an option you don't have to use them. Any AA batteries picked up on route will work. 2 or 3 spare batteries don't weigh much.

I don't follow the proprietary comment. Do you mean Garmin basecamp to create and upload routes from? How is that significantly different from using any route creation app?

What I mean is that all the software is proprietary, as is the hardware, and often, while dedicated to a single task, much slower than modern phone hardware. This means that you don't have options - for example on my phone I use Google Maps, OsmAnd, Komoot, and others. Particularly where I am cycling/walking in Indonesia there is zero reliable mapping so I am more reliant on satellite imagery (as many different sources as possible, one provider is not enough as you tend to get low resolution bits, or cloudy bits, or whatever), and contours.

Being tied into whatever you can get from one vendor is no fun IME.

If phone use is such a durable solution you'd get explorers using them too. I bet you don't get many choosing their s10 for a polar exploration trip. Sorry if that's facetious comment but dedicated GPS units are more durable and reliable.

Well clearly yes, as I already said dedicated GPS units are better in some ways, and much worse in others. It obviously depends what you are doing.

But at mentioned last night, this debate is pointless. I asked for dedicated GPS units not phones. I clarified it to make sure it was clear.

I'm not sure why you are trying to shut down the discussion? This is a discussion forum, while you are clearly looking for a dedicated GPS unit, we are not your personal shopper so to speak - there are other people reading (now and in the future) who will take a different view based on different factors. If you don't want to talk about phones, don't respond to the discussion about phones, it's not complicated really.

[Mick F]

Naughty boy! We'll pretend you never said that.

Do you think that Garmin price their stuff so high because they know people crack the codes and copy them? If I can do it, so can everyone else.
What about DVDs and software? Copy protect doesn't work.
Anyone who sells the stuff knows very well that they'll be copied, and that's why the prices are high.

I would buy the map. Garmin would get their money.
What's to stop me selling it on? Garmin still have their original money.
Copy it and sell the copies at a fraction of the original price to offset the high cost from Garmin?

[Tangled Metal]

MickF has a naughty side I reckon. Go to the naughty step for 2 minutes to think about how advise to pirate mapping is not something to be doing on a public forum.

50k is OK for walking in some areas but bad in others. Very hard on farmland areas. However I was brought up using 50k for walks in just about the worst areas to use it. So I'm actually OK using that scale even walking. Most walking use will be the lakes. I know the area well so most GPS / map use is to get a wider look for checking where the lunch stop will be or what the hills or other features around us are. Well confirmation of what I know they are.

Shame you can't get 40k Harvey maps for Garmin. There's the lake district map that has most of the lakes on one map. None of this two paper maps because you're walking near one map edge. That's one big annoyance with os 25k in the lakes.

[thelawnet]

Naughty boy! We'll pretend you never said that.

Do you think that Garmin price their stuff so high because they know people crack the codes and copy them? If I can do it, so can everyone else.
What about DVDs and software? Copy protect doesn't work.
Anyone who sells the stuff knows very well that they'll be copied, and that's why the prices are high.

I would buy the map. Garmin would get their money.
What's to stop me selling it on? Garmin still have their original money.
Copy it and sell the copies at a fraction of the original price to offset the high cost from Garmin?

I am not sure why you would send them the £350 in that case - just download it off the internet for nothing from a dodgy website.

I had a look on ebay and it seems people are selling (illegal) copies for £40.

[Mick F]

It's not pirate mapping.
It's removing the lock code so you can do what you want with the map.

Scenario:
If you bought two different maps from Garmin on two separate SD cards, how could you use them in one Garmin device?
That was the situation I found myself in.

Unlock the codes, and copy both maps onto one single SD card.
That way, you can use the menu to toggle between the maps on screen as required.

[pwa]

MickF has a naughty side I reckon. Go to the naughty step for 2 minutes to think about how advise to pirate mapping is not something to be doing on a public forum.

50k is OK for walking in some areas but bad in others. Very hard on farmland areas. However I was brought up using 50k for walks in just about the worst areas to use it. So I'm actually OK using that scale even walking. Most walking use will be the lakes. I know the area well so most GPS / map use is to get a wider look for checking where the lunch stop will be or what the hills or other features around us are. Well confirmation of what I know they are.

Shame you can't get 40k Harvey maps for Garmin. There's the lake district map that has most of the lakes on one map. None of this two paper maps because you're walking near one map edge. That's one big annoyance with os 25k in the lakes.

Actually, I bought a few new paper Explorer maps a couple of weeks ago to replace decades old versions and the new ones have useful overlap that I don't remember on the old ones.