Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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andrew_s
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby andrew_s » 8 May 2019, 2:26pm

Vitara wrote:The Gore One Shake dry can currently only be made in black because of the limitations involved in producing the highly technical fabric.

Its selling point is that is fully waterproof and breathable. That's not just the advertising claim, I've been there 5hrs cycling in heavy rain and still warm and dry underneath. I don't think there is another cycling jacket, of any colour, that will achieve that. For an all weather Audax rider it's a must have piece of kit.

Gore Shakedry jackets are now also available in a darkish blue or grey. Black is probably better though, on the grounds of more contrast with the general surroundings.

I agree on their functionality. The biggest disadvantage is that they are fairly delicate, which would likely make an off expensive.

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mjr
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby mjr » 8 May 2019, 2:56pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Plenty of road furniture is black, including bollards. I'm not sure that's entirely comparable but hey, wear the colour you like, I say. I like colour colours myself and try to avoid both black and white, but many like them.

Often bollards are hi-vis, but it's not protecting them, so Joe Dunckley has started a campaign for them to be made more visible at https://waronthemotorist.wordpress.com/ ... the-roads/ which some readers might like to support.
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 8 May 2019, 3:26pm

Yeah, when they're saying something like "keep left" they're usually hi-viz, often illuminated (though it's amazing how the reflective ones show up in a modern dynamo light in an otherwise unilluminated area), but the ones that are just put there to prevent parking on the pavement or pedestrianise a street are usually black. Even though they're sometimes in the middle of what is otherwise a carriageway (and often still is, just barred to motors).

Mike Sales
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby Mike Sales » 8 May 2019, 3:34pm

mjr wrote:Often bollards are hi-vis, but it's not protecting them, so Joe Dunckley has started a campaign for them to be made more visible at https://waronthemotorist.wordpress.com/ ... the-roads/ which some readers might like to support.


Drivers manage to run into many things. Trees, walls, bus stops, other motors, even houses and shops. If they are all made gaudy with Hi-Viz unfortunate cyclists will be camouflaged.

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mjr
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby mjr » 8 May 2019, 3:36pm

Mike Sales wrote:Drivers manage to run into many things. Trees, walls, bus stops, other motors, even houses and shops. If they are all made gaudy with Hi-Viz unfortunate cyclists will be camouflaged.

That danger has already been reported http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2007/12/03/c ... ous-green/
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freiston
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby freiston » 8 May 2019, 7:54pm

mjr wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Plenty of road furniture is black, including bollards. I'm not sure that's entirely comparable but hey, wear the colour you like, I say. I like colour colours myself and try to avoid both black and white, but many like them.

Often bollards are hi-vis, but it's not protecting them, so Joe Dunckley has started a campaign for them to be made more visible at https://waronthemotorist.wordpress.com/ ... the-roads/ which some readers might like to support.

Bookmarked! Cheers :D
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)

nez
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby nez » 8 May 2019, 8:14pm

mjr wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Plenty of road furniture is black, including bollards. I'm not sure that's entirely comparable but hey, wear the colour you like, I say. I like colour colours myself and try to avoid both black and white, but many like them.

Often bollards are hi-vis, but it's not protecting them, so Joe Dunckley has started a campaign for them to be made more visible at https://waronthemotorist.wordpress.com/ ... the-roads/ which some readers might like to support.


I actually rode behind a London taxi which flattened a brightly lit bollard in Southampton Row. It was before mobile phones (yes I'm that old) and I couldn't believe what I was watching, as the bollard was mounted on a high kerbed refuge in the middle of the busy road. After the collision the cabbie just looked perplexed.

Ben@Forest
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby Ben@Forest » 9 May 2019, 8:04am

On the visibility of black or not l can only say that 15 years ago l and a friend cycled from St Malo to Bilbao. He had two jerseys, one black and one yellow. On the days he wore the yellow he was significantly more visible at greater distance.

I also have a gilet which has a black back; some years ago l finally donned it towards the end of a long ride and the cold was beginning to bite. The reaction of the bloke l was riding with? - 'It's amazing how much less visible you are'.

Wearing colours that stand out is no silver bullet, but drab or dark colours don't seem to provide some greater contrast in my experience.

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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 9 May 2019, 9:05am

Random example of black bollards in the carriageway:
https://goo.gl/maps/PPwSQ5J12fEFguSc9

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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby thirdcrank » 10 May 2019, 11:16am

On the stuck-zips side-track, I thought I'd had my come uppance. Yesterday afternoon when it was raining, getting ready for the school run - which means a walk for me - I was donning a black Goretex jacket from my vast range, when I dislocated the little tab on the zip slider and with the jacket on and under time pressure I couldn't see how to fix it. One way or another, I got it off but beginning to get hot and bothered. On with another coat - FWIW a Rohan with Barricade - and a slightly faster than usual walk. Later, with more time and not wearing the jacket, I still couldn't work out how to free the little tab without breaking it. It was wedged fast, with no obvious way of seeing how it had happened as a guide to getting it right. This morning, cool and as clear-headed as I'm ever likely to be, I managed to fiddle back into position, but none-the-wiser as to what went wrong. It's my favourite Musto rain jacket so anybody still reading will understand my sense of relief. :D

De Sisti
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby De Sisti » 10 May 2019, 12:45pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Plenty of road furniture is black, including bollards.

?????!

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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby mjr » 10 May 2019, 1:05pm

De Sisti wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Plenty of road furniture is black, including bollards.

?????!

Would you like to try that again, using some words?
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 10 May 2019, 2:33pm

De Sisti wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Plenty of road furniture is black, including bollards.

?????!

See the link to an example on Google Streetview which I gave a couple of posts above and will repeat here:
https://goo.gl/maps/PPwSQ5J12fEFguSc9

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby The utility cyclist » 10 May 2019, 7:58pm

Ben@Forest wrote:On the visibility of black or not l can only say that 15 years ago l and a friend cycled from St Malo to Bilbao. He had two jerseys, one black and one yellow. On the days he wore the yellow he was significantly more visible at greater distance.

I also have a gilet which has a black back; some years ago l finally donned it towards the end of a long ride and the cold was beginning to bite. :roll: The reaction of the bloke l was riding with? - 'It's amazing how much less visible you are'.

Wearing colours that stand out is no silver bullet, but drab or dark colours don't seem to provide some greater contrast in my experience.

And yet he still saw you! He like many others have been brain washed to such a degree and got lazy that anything that isn't immediately in front of your nose or has big flashy neons at 1000000 candela is 'less visible'
It's precisely like the comment that many say, I saw a cyclist wearing all black with no lights on the other night ... a good job all those other hazards on the road that might occur are lit up or your mate might not see them, wandering animals, broken down motorvehicles, a person who has fallen in the road, a disabled or elderly person struggling to cross the road just around that bend you're bombing around unsighted and not able to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.

Your anecdote only proves that you and your mate have been lulled into thinking that black/dark colours are the problem, well read upthread and you'll see were I have collected some stats regarding car colours that are dark being less crashy than some lighter colours, but if you're actually paying attention properly all colours in any conditions are visible, people simply don't take the time to actually look and see correctly.

I was driving my mum to my aunts new house by the coast last weekend whilst i was up visiting, it was a drab and overcast day as it had been all weekend, about 1/2 mile into the distance I saw a grey/black object that seemed to be by the side if not on the road. it was certainly wasn't moving fast if at all but it was clearly something. Sure enough as we came behind him a few bends later it was a largish chap riding a mountain/hybrid type thing, black trousers, black top, no magic hat, OMG how could I have seen him from such a distance on a grey day,, I must have 6 million dollar man eyesight :roll:

You might want to have a look at this YT video, shows how the driver is easily able to spot all the cyclists in dark colours and the bright coloured ones that are blending in a bit to the bright surroundings, but easily enough to spot if one bothers to actually look. There is no excuse and thinking that the colour of your jacket/jersey makes any difference is at best misguided and by sticking to it you become part of the problem that we should change our behaviour/garments for the 'benefit' (except there is none) of those that are doing the harm, it simply never works to increase safety. There's simply no logical sense in it other than to aid victim blaming and excuses for those doing the harm and to back up the flawed thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8pX52v_yNA

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Re: Black Waterproof jackets - a bad idea?

Postby mattsccm » 10 May 2019, 9:33pm

Not convinced if black is an issue. Our club kit is black with white/yellow/ green band around chest or white with a black band in the mix instead. Following a rider with each under normal tree cover on main roads the white is way more visible. Contrast I think is the issue.
I ride to work in either a apple green top or the black club kit.
I am daily passed by a work mate who reckons that the black is much better under a tree canopy with hedges. In the winter it was the other way round. Contrast!