About bike shops for big people?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
scottg
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Location: Highland Heights Kentucky,, USA

Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby scottg » 17 Jun 2019, 3:43pm

Worksman primarily make industrial bikes and cargo trikes.

They also do big bikes.

https://www.worksmancycles.com/big-bikes.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why not the best, buy Cyclo-Benelux.

iandriver
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Location: Cambridge.

Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby iandriver » 17 Jun 2019, 3:50pm

Rather than going as far as opening a bike shop, maybe something that gives a source of quality, founded advice might be a different approach.
I see some people have had a go: https://forbigandheavypeople.com/best-h ... vy-people/ or bike manufacturers that do stuff in the UK, lots of US variants around https://zizebikes.com/
Supporter of the A10 corridor cycling campaign serving Royston to Cambridge http://a10corridorcycle.com. Never knew gardening secateurs were an essential part of the on bike tool kit until I took up campaigning.....

random37
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby random37 » 17 Jun 2019, 11:02pm

pwa wrote:Cheaper and simpler are good qualities to aim for, but can you think of a more affordable bike with wheels that could reliably cope with say 150kg? The Rohloff rear wheels can have upto 36 spokes with no dishing, which must make a stronger wheel than normal if you use a robust rim. If you can think of equally strong wheels done in a cheaper way, great. But off the top of my head I can't.

The Elephant bike I bought for my other half has a Sturmey drum brake hub. About 1/10 of the price of a Rolhoff.
I reckon for starting out a very simple single gear wheel could be perfectly adequate. I imagine they will start on flat roads only.

pwa wrote:Going a bit off topic, my advice to anyone very overweight and considering cycling would be to initially do other things to lose weight, then start the cycling later as a second phase of the journey to a healthier life. Firstly, cut out sugar and alcohol. And build up the walking done. And go looking for a bike when the weight is down to about 110 kg and getting a normal bike that will take the weight is not going to be as difficult. But diet is the main thing. It takes an awful lot of exercise to work off one packet of biscuits. I speak as someone who has some weakness in this department.

Sugar and alcohol are addictive. You simply can't expect someone who is an addict to stop taking something. There are underlying reasons for people to do anything with so little self love that have nothing to do with the behaviour.
Why should someone have to "earn" the right to have a bike by losing weight? Why can't they have one as they are?
Personally, diets never worked for me. I needed to feel better about myself, and sort my life out; riding a bike was a big part of that. I didn't want to drink or overeat when I wasn't feeling so miserable all the time. Once I did that, the weight came off without me really having to try.

pwa
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby pwa » 17 Jun 2019, 11:24pm

random37 wrote:
pwa wrote:Going a bit off topic, my advice to anyone very overweight and considering cycling would be to initially do other things to lose weight, then start the cycling later as a second phase of the journey to a healthier life. Firstly, cut out sugar and alcohol. And build up the walking done. And go looking for a bike when the weight is down to about 110 kg and getting a normal bike that will take the weight is not going to be as difficult. But diet is the main thing. It takes an awful lot of exercise to work off one packet of biscuits. I speak as someone who has some weakness in this department.

Sugar and alcohol are addictive. You simply can't expect someone who is an addict to stop taking something. There are underlying reasons for people to do anything with so little self love that have nothing to do with the behaviour.
Why should someone have to "earn" the right to have a bike by losing weight? Why can't they have one as they are?
Personally, diets never worked for me. I needed to feel better about myself, and sort my life out; riding a bike was a big part of that. I didn't want to drink or overeat when I wasn't feeling so miserable all the time. Once I did that, the weight came off without me really having to try.

I know cutting out sugar and alcohol won't be easy, but diet is the biggest factor in obesity, not lack of exercise. That is why I say that. Of course there are compulsive behaviour issues at play.

Did I say someone has to "earn" the right to cycle? Of course not. It would be a daft thing to say. But excess weight is a barrier to cycling and losing a bit of weight first would make bike selection and use easier. I'd suggest walking as the initial exercise because shoes don't come with weight limits. The person concerned can, of course, ignore every word I utter and do exactly as they like. But walking is just as much a positive thing as cycling. Both can be used to break out of unhealthy living and give a positive direction which, as you say, promotes a feeling of wellbeing that in turn helps with diet control.

random37
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby random37 » 18 Jun 2019, 9:49am

pwa wrote:I know cutting out sugar and alcohol won't be easy, but diet is the biggest factor in obesity, not lack of exercise. That is why I say that. Of course there are compulsive behaviour issues at play.

I think it's very reductive to say that you can just do such a thing. There is a multimillion pound industry in trying to get people to lose weight through diet. It is not a moral failing that you can change from willpower. If that approach worked, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
pwa wrote:Did I say someone has to "earn" the right to cycle? Of course not. It would be a daft thing to say. But excess weight is a barrier to cycling and losing a bit of weight first would make bike selection and use easier.

Let's get one thing straight. Most people at any weight can find a bike that will be OK for them to ride with only minor modifications(see Geoff Capes above, and me). Below 110kg, they can start riding lightweight bikes, which for some ridiculous reason is all that most bike shops want to sell and what most enthusiasts want to ride. Your advice denies people an activity that they might really enjoy. It might make them challenge their long-established view of exercise. It might be the nudge that gets them into different habits.

reohn2
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2019, 10:18am

random37 wrote:........ It is not a moral failing that you can change from willpower........

No it's not a moral failing but it is a change through willpower.
Only willpower will stop over eating,smoking or drug abuse,the right help may be needed but ultimately it's the person's want to stop and taking the next step to actually stopping that does it.
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gbnz
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby gbnz » 18 Jun 2019, 10:39am

reohn2 wrote:
random37 wrote:........ It is not a moral failing that you can change from willpower........

it is a change through willpower.
Only willpower will stop over eating,smoking or drug abuse,the right help may be needed but ultimately it's the person's want to stop and taking the next step to actually stopping that does it.


+1 humans control their conscious actions primarily by will power. Suppose the philosophical argument could be raised, that those who can't control their conscious actions aren't fully human?

reohn2
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2019, 11:19am

gbnz wrote:...... Suppose the philosophical argument could be raised, that those who can't control their conscious actions aren't fully human?

I disagree,there are many philosophical,psychological and social reasons for people not being in control of their consciousness.
Are any of us in total control of our consciousness?
Are we any less human for not being?
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gbnz
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby gbnz » 18 Jun 2019, 12:36pm

reohn2 wrote: consciousness.... our consciousness?


I did refer to conscious action rather than consciouness, which is of course a different concept.

And referring to conscious action, suppose I've finished eating for the day having had a couple of Pain Au Chocolats. I wouldn't want to be an obese cyclist, having to search for a bike big enough to carry me :wink:

slowster
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby slowster » 18 Jun 2019, 12:39pm

Seeing the problem as one of willpower is facile and overly simplistic. Implicit in many of the above posts is the idea that people's level of willpower is innate and/or unvarying. That is nonsense. Suggesting that grossly overweight people just need to eat less is stupid lazy thinking.

Just telling someone not to eat so much is a negative approach. If someone is used to spending so much time eating, and their body and metabolism have become so accustomed to such a diet that they will feel hunger/a need/a desire to eat so frequently, for them to just stop without any other change is going to be extremely hard. Like a smoker who gives up smoking will be constantly aware of their desire/craving for a cigarette, they will similarly be constantly aware of their 'hunger', and it will be extremely hard for them to resist that. Other factors which are likely to be present, such as low sense of self worth and depression, will make it even more difficult to resist.

I suspect that the scientific studies that have shown that diet is more important than exercise in weight loss are fundamentally flawed and also overly simplistic, because they treat the subjects of the studies as little more than machines whose calories consumed/burned can be measured, and in doing so they fail to take account of the psychological effects involved.

Not only are eating less and exercising not mutually exclusive, I believe that exercise very significantly influences how easy it is for someone severely overweight to eat less and more healthily. At the most basic level, if someone is exercising or undertaking some physical activity their body and mind will be engaged in the activity and less likely to be thinking about whether they want or need something to eat. However, in my limited personal experience exercise has much stronger effects than that: whilst hard/long exercise can trigger ravenous hunger after the activity, I think it can also suppress hunger/the desire to eat outside of the immediate post exercise period, and help the body's metabolism to reset itself to want the right foods in the right quantities.

Consequently getting someone to start being active by riding a bike for half a mile a day, or walk or swim a comparable distance, without even (consciously) attempting to change their diet or cut down their consumption of calories, may be much more effective and likely to succeed in helping someone to lose weight in the long term than expecting or telling them to start by eating less without any other change in their lifestyle.

pwa
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby pwa » 18 Jun 2019, 1:11pm

I don't think I underestimate the obstacles to people cutting down on calories. I am fully aware that psychological issues are at the root of the problem. But it does nobody any favours by pretending that the path to a healthier life does not include calorie intake reduction. No amount of cycling will take a very overweight person down to a healthy weight unless it is accompanied by significant dietary change. And I mean changing to a better diet for life, not until a target weight is achieved. Diet is the big factor, exercise is secondary. If, as has been claimed, cycling can help someone feel better about themselves and that in turn helps them eat less, that would of course be a very good thing.

Perhaps some of us live in hillier places than others. I'd not advise a very overweight person to begin their path to a healthier life by cycling partly because around here whichever direction one goes one will soon be facing hills. Walking is a more straightforward initial choice of exercise for that reason and because shoes have no weight limit, and we all have them already.

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NUKe
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby NUKe » 18 Jun 2019, 1:35pm

pwa wrote:It occurs to me that as Thorn Cycles make tandems for the weight of two adults plus baggage, they should be able to make a solo bike for one heavy adult using the same wheels. If it were me, I'd ask them.

They happily supplied me and the Missus with a tandem that carries my weight (14 stone?) plus that of my better half (8.5 stone) plus 4 full panniers, with 26 inch wheels that have 32 spokes each (36 would be possible) and a Rohloff internal gear hub. Unless their solo frames and forks are substantially weaker I would expect them to be able to put together something strong enough for a very heavy rider, though not in a wallet-friendly way.


Robin already does cater for people of different heights and weights and helped out a friend who was both tall and heavy. Solution was a world traveller with a good hand built set of wheels.
More mainstream quality hybrids, trekking bikes, will do the job, Dawes Galaxy go upto 60 inch frames. A good quality Dutch bike .
. This is only a problem for boutique style racing shops where everything is parred down. a hybrid with a good wheel set will do the job.
Last edited by NUKe on 18 Jun 2019, 1:41pm, edited 1 time in total.
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reohn2
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2019, 1:38pm

gbnz wrote:
reohn2 wrote: consciousness.... our consciousness?


I did refer to conscious action rather than consciouness, which is of course a different

Conscious action follows consciousness does it not?
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pwa
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby pwa » 18 Jun 2019, 2:24pm

Apart from strong wheels and a robust frameset, what other components need particular consideration? Are steel bars better? Are normal cranks safe? Will a normal steel rail saddle be okay?

random37
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Re: About bike shops for big people?

Postby random37 » 18 Jun 2019, 4:53pm

reohn2 wrote:No it's not a moral failing but it is a change through willpower.

Abstinence programmes simply don't work. There is decades of data proving this to be the case.
You are correct in saying you have to stop consuming so many calories. But before you do that you have to change the mindset that makes you want to consume them. That's the challenge. New types of physical activity give a sense of accomplishment and help people feel better about themselves generally. That's the value of giving a bike to someone who hasn't done exercise before.
pwa wrote:Perhaps some of us live in hillier places than others. I'd not advise a very overweight person to begin their path to a healthier life by cycling partly because around here whichever direction one goes one will soon be facing hills. Walking is a more straightforward initial choice of exercise for that reason and because shoes have no weight limit, and we all have them already.

I live in the peak district. It doesn't matter at all what gears I have, I would still end up walking up many hills. And that doesn't matter at all.
My other half, who I am trying to help to get started, has an Elephant Bike. No-one would be able to ride that up the road to my house.
NUKe wrote:More mainstream quality hybrids, trekking bikes, will do the job, Dawes Galaxy go upto 60 inch frames. A good quality Dutch bike .
. This is only a problem for boutique style racing shops where everything is parred down. a hybrid with a good wheel set will do the job.

Yes! It is only a slightly different bike from one that many bike shops stock.
pwa wrote:Apart from strong wheels and a robust frameset, what other components need particular consideration? Are steel bars better? Are normal cranks safe? Will a normal steel rail saddle be okay?

Generally, just a back wheel and a taller stem for a more upright riding position. Fat tyres with thick casings for a bit of comfort.
I don't know what the specific weight limit is on anything, but I suggest there is no reason to have anything made of lightweight butted alu. The only components I've ever broken during a ride have been a stem and a set of handlebars, but that was when I was 85kg. Stupid lightweights!