Wheels for big guys

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Bonefishblues
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2019, 1:15pm

simonhill wrote:......................and by now the OP is probably thoroughly confused.

Aren't we able to give simple clear advice that stands on its own and doesn't need to be argued in never ending posts.

We're in something of a vacuum absent the return of the OP, as your own post earlier would indicate, making assumptions regarding the detail of their circumstances. This happens quite often, I've noticed.

Besides, there are different opinions, because Forum :D

pete75
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby pete75 » 29 Jun 2019, 1:39pm

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:
PH wrote:He was breaking spokes because the wrong ones were fitted, it's pretty clear in the book if not the film! He had them replaced in Belgium in the first couple of weeks of his trip and didn't break another.


If you're talking about the same Mark Beaumont' who wrote The Man who Cycled the World then he didn't have his spokes replaced in Belgium. He had his wheel rebuilt in Poland and the wheelbuilder there said the problem was it had been built with too much tension. He built the wheel with much less tension in the spokes than is usual here. The wheel lasted until he was hit by a car in Chicago.
Rohloff wheels can get away with fewer spokes because there is no dish.

Your recollection is better than mine, the point remains that the issue was not the number of spokes as Tinnishill suggests.


Nor was it the wrong spokes as you claim.

PH
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby PH » 29 Jun 2019, 3:04pm

pete75 wrote:
PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:
If you're talking about the same Mark Beaumont' who wrote The Man who Cycled the World then he didn't have his spokes replaced in Belgium. He had his wheel rebuilt in Poland and the wheelbuilder there said the problem was it had been built with too much tension. He built the wheel with much less tension in the spokes than is usual here. The wheel lasted until he was hit by a car in Chicago.
Rohloff wheels can get away with fewer spokes because there is no dish.

Your recollection is better than mine, the point remains that the issue was not the number of spokes as Tinnishill suggests.


Nor was it the wrong spokes as you claim.

Is there a prize?*
Wrong country, wrong reason, what does it matter? The broken spokes on Beaumont's Rohloff were given as an example of the need to have more spokes, I pointed out that's wrong, it still is.

* If there is - Although the wheel builder told him the spokes were breaking due to over tension, the correct length of spoke hadn't been available in time and the original wheelbuilder had cut some to fit and this was likely to be the cause of the breakages, Go google, it's out there in his own words. I later read ,or he might have said at the talk I went to, that they'd been cut and new threads rolled.

random37
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby random37 » 29 Jun 2019, 4:11pm

simonhill wrote:......................Aren't we able to give simple clear advice that stands on its own and doesn't need to be argued in never ending posts.

I've noticed that whenever someone asks about anything to do with cycling on here and mentions they're overweight, some people always start lecturing them about diet and that they can't ride a bike until they've been checked over by a doctor.
We are not these people's doctors, and we shouldn't be telling them not to do something that will almost certainly have a positive impact on them.
bigjim wrote:Redundant for him. Would you want to drag round heavy wheels for no reason? I remove the heavy touring wheels off my tourers as I don't need them for local or club rides. The bikes are much nicer with lighter more responsive wheels in situ, if I'm unloaded.

I don't think this will be an issue for a 180kg rider for a long time. Perhaps when he has lost 70kg he might want a new bike. And that's fine! He'll probably want new trousers too. Would we tell someone who is losing weight that if they do they'll have to keep their old clothes?

Bonefishblues
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2019, 5:00pm

random37 wrote:Would we tell someone who is losing weight that if they do they'll have to keep their old clothes?

Eloquent you are :D

Slight difference there is, but much enjoyed your phrase was!

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bigjim
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby bigjim » 29 Jun 2019, 8:14pm

random37 wrote:
simonhill wrote:......................Aren't we able to give simple clear advice that stands on its own and doesn't need to be argued in never ending posts.

I've noticed that whenever someone asks about anything to do with cycling on here and mentions they're overweight, some people always start lecturing them about diet and that they can't ride a bike until they've been checked over by a doctor.
We are not these people's doctors, and we shouldn't be telling them not to do something that will almost certainly have a positive impact on them.
bigjim wrote:Redundant for him. Would you want to drag round heavy wheels for no reason? I remove the heavy touring wheels off my tourers as I don't need them for local or club rides. The bikes are much nicer with lighter more responsive wheels in situ, if I'm unloaded.

I don't think this will be an issue for a 180kg rider for a long time. Perhaps when he has lost 70kg he might want a new bike. And that's fine! He'll probably want new trousers too. Would we tell someone who is losing weight that if they do they'll have to keep their old clothes?

Nobody lectured anybody or told anybody what to do. He asked for advice and opinion which is what he got. You are just looking for an argument when there isn't one.
Nothing left to prove.

pete75
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby pete75 » 29 Jun 2019, 8:23pm

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:
PH wrote:Your recollection is better than mine, the point remains that the issue was not the number of spokes as Tinnishill suggests.


Nor was it the wrong spokes as you claim.

Is there a prize?*
Wrong country, wrong reason, what does it matter? The broken spokes on Beaumont's Rohloff were given as an example of the need to have more spokes, I pointed out that's wrong, it still is.

* If there is - Although the wheel builder told him the spokes were breaking due to over tension, the correct length of spoke hadn't been available in time and the original wheelbuilder had cut some to fit and this was likely to be the cause of the breakages, Go google, it's out there in his own words. I later read ,or he might have said at the talk I went to, that they'd been cut and new threads rolled.


Not really I just like mocking know it alls when they're wrong.

PH
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby PH » 29 Jun 2019, 11:23pm

pete75 wrote:I just like mocking know it alls when they're wrong.

yes me too :lol:
I said "He was breaking spokes because the wrong ones were fitted..."
Mark Beaumont said "because the spokes have been cut to allow for the strange hub it's weakened them which is why they're breaking"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBMGbHanLU
At about 14 min

pwa
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2019, 8:32am

If the budget allows (and I can see why it might not) a Rohloff rear hub with as little as 32 spokes (36 are possible) should make a very strong 26" wheel due to having equal spoke tension and short spokes. But it is a very expensive way to a reliable wheel so I can understand it=f people find it unaffordable. Needless to say, you want an expensive wheel like that put together by a good wheel builder. I have used the 32 spoke version on a tandem laden with panniers and two riders and it has stood up very well. As it should. It is a very heavy wheel.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Jun 2019, 8:52am

Most of the weight's in the hub, to be fair, that's why it's a heavy wheel. The spokes are the spokes and the rim is the rim, iyswim.

pete75
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby pete75 » 30 Jun 2019, 4:59pm

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:I just like mocking know it alls when they're wrong.

yes me too :lol:
I said "He was breaking spokes because the wrong ones were fitted..."
Mark Beaumont said "because the spokes have been cut to allow for the strange hub it's weakened them which is why they're breaking"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBMGbHanLU
At about 14 min

Not what it says in his book. Cut wrong How? Not enough thread, too much thread? Were they the wrong length?

alexnharvey
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby alexnharvey » 30 Jun 2019, 5:14pm

Shortened too much then threaded in the thinner gauge section? Threads cut not rolled?

Brucey
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby Brucey » 30 Jun 2019, 5:41pm

alexnharvey wrote:.... Threads cut not rolled?


I've never seen a tool for doing this. Conventional bicycle spoke threads are always rolled.

Threads that are rolled using workshop tools -rather than factory equipment- ought not to be inherently inferior. Like most things wheelbuilding, the devil is in the detail; the doing rather than the theory alone.

You can give a bad wheelbuilder a set of 'perfect parts' and the result will be a bad wheel. By contrast a good wheelbuilder will often succeed despite parts that are not optimal.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PH
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby PH » 1 Jul 2019, 4:57am

pete75 wrote:Not what it says in his book. Cut wrong How? Not enough thread, too much thread? Were they the wrong length?

Ask him not me, I've repeated what he's said about his spoke failures and you've mocked it.

PH
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Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby PH » 1 Jul 2019, 5:05am

Brucey wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:.... Threads cut not rolled?


I've never seen a tool for doing this. Conventional bicycle spoke threads are always rolled.

It's not something I know anything about, but it must be a thing, it's discouraged in Roger Musson's Wheelpro book:
Obtaining the appropriate spoke length by cutting the thread into a trimmed down spoke using a threading die is not an ideal solution because it disrupts the grain flow and the smaller thread diameter will not be an ideal fit in the nipple…