Wheels for big guys

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Brucey
Posts: 35562
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby Brucey » 1 Jul 2019, 9:55am

PH wrote:
Brucey wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:.... Threads cut not rolled?


I've never seen a tool for doing this. Conventional bicycle spoke threads are always rolled.

It's not something I know anything about, but it must be a thing, it's discouraged in Roger Musson's Wheelpro book:
Obtaining the appropriate spoke length by cutting the thread into a trimmed down spoke using a threading die is not an ideal solution because it disrupts the grain flow and the smaller thread diameter will not be an ideal fit in the nipple…


well that would have some meaning if you were comparing rolled threads with cut thread in a more general sense but it is misleading in relation to bicycle spokes.

I repeat, bicycle spoke threads are always rolled not cut, (it is physically impossible to cut a 14G spoke thread in a 14G spoke) and the 'grain flow is disrupted' in the same way whether it is an inexpensive rolling head or a tool that costs x100 more.

Needless to say it is possible to make a mess of it with whichever type of tool too, or fail to stress-relieve the spoke properly, or one of a hundred other things.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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531colin
Posts: 12490
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby 531colin » 1 Jul 2019, 1:09pm

Long ago, in the days of British built motorbikes, you could get plain spokes to cut down and thread with a die. You then needed to use nipples for cut threads, which were different to nipples for rolled threads on the same gauge spokes.
Mark Beaumont is an excellent rider, but that doesn't mean he necessarily has a good grasp of the finer points of wheelbuilding.

stodd
Posts: 109
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby stodd » 3 Jul 2019, 11:54am

Not for big guys, but for tandems; I thought the issues were close enough I'd join this thread rather than start a new one.

Is a handbuilt Spa wheel (Sputnik 36 hole rim, Deore hub, Sapim double butted left side Sapim Strong drive side) suitable for a tandem?
It looks like a pretty strong combination.

Fairly basic Viking tandem ... works well for us.
90kg (14 stone) front, 70kg (11 stone) rear.
Mainly on road, also some decent quality bridleways.
Electric front hub.
No long distances ... 20-30 mile rides, 1000 miles a year.
Occasional heavy load for a mile or so after a big shop.

Original 48 spoke wheel just broke 9 spokes, and shows signs of rim damage at one of the spoke seatings.

I've emailed Spa to see what they have to say, but thought people here might have useful advice too.
There's a similar one a bit cheaper from SJS, but it has non-butted spokes both sides (DT Swiss Champion)

Bonefishblues
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby Bonefishblues » 3 Jul 2019, 12:13pm

SJS recommend those spokes for tandems, I'd go with the SJS build. Their reply to me and a similar (26" wheel) query:

Hi there,

The easiest thing to do, and probably more economical would be to order a set of wheels built by us.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wheelswheel ... -in-black/

That’s for 100mm x qr and 135mm x qr.

Thanks,

Ryan

stodd
Posts: 109
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby stodd » 6 Jul 2019, 10:53am

Thank you for the comment. After feedback from Spas and SJS and lots of deliberation I decided to go for the Spa option with the stronger Sapim Strong spokes.

fullupandslowingdown
Posts: 124
Joined: 11 Oct 2007, 5:47pm

Re: Wheels for big guys

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 7 Jul 2019, 10:21am

years ago when I was more mechanically inclined, I have cut threads longer/lower/shorter/nearer tuther end*delete as you feel :lol:
I don't recall a single cut spoke snapping. My experience has been, that it's particular hubs that suffer excessive snaps. On investigation it turned out that not all hub manufacturers chamfer the ole the the spoke hooks through, correctly and this becomes like a metal guillotine whenever you ride over a pothole etc.

I've made several trailers in the past. In particular one designed for a pair of standard rear 27" wheels, and one for two 18" wheels off a kids bike. I loaded them pretty much the same. Going around a corner once with the 27" version and kazummppp. The wheels collapsed sideways.
Obviously the forces are different bicycle Vs trailer. However, I'd argue it does illustrate that whilst the wheel might technically be as strong, a larger diameter wheel suffers greater side forces as per laws of physics....
So I'd certainly suggest to the OP that he sticks to 26" rather than get any bigger. I don't have experience of building tandems up so no sugestions as to exact hubs and rims to use. It doesn't seem logical though that fewer spokes are better than more. Unless it's because of of the lacing at the hub end. I'd definitely agree it's down to the wheelbuilder's skill though.
As a weight loss exercise, cycling is almost as good as swimming for avoiding joint stress as you're distributing your weight over not just two feet, but yer backside, and two hands too, plus the modest uplift at speed on your chest....