of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

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reohn2
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Re: of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

Postby reohn2 » 21 Jul 2019, 4:52pm

Vantage wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Vantage wrote:Hope my 35's last a while then :(

I was meaning yourself, did you miss them?


Ah, gotcha :)
Not yet I hope.

Plan B is to hide in the pushes, wait till you come round the corner and then pounce on you in a ninja style and steal your Hypers.

:D you can't have my tyres but you're welcome to my company :D
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The utility cyclist
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Re: of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

Postby The utility cyclist » 22 Jul 2019, 1:34am

reohn2 wrote:TUC
I've seen a couple of reviews in Jack Brown's,by all accounts they're similar to Paselas,which I have ridden in similar sizes as I have many other tyres .
Have you ridden Hypers?
FWIW,I weigh a lardy 90kgs ATM,I cruise at around 15 to 16mph on the flat on crapmac on 40mm(37mm actual size) Hypers run at 40 front 60 rear anymore psi and they just become uncomfortable without anymore speed.
My point though was that on small section tyres,which need much higher psi's you risk tyres and rims.I've ridden some pretty rough tracks on 40mm Hypers at a much faster than I could on smaller section tyres.
Hypers being slick don't like muddy conditions but on dry offroad tracks they do just fine and similarly so on UK crapmac.


I haven't ridden the Hyper's, I never offered anything with respect to it but based on how people incl yourself have described it at length here and elsewhere and the question posed and requirements of a fast rolling wider tyre that can be used on some off road, has good puncture resistance and good wear and grip it seems obvious from my own personal experience/s that the Jack Brown is pretty much as close to the Hyper based on that.

33mm isn't narrow section for start and as I said on a traditional touring rim or wider 'racing' based rim it'll be wider still. I mentioned that I rode at higher pressures to show that even despite that it was still more than sufficient over rougher terrain and for most people (not all obvs) who won't be using a road based tyre to go over such regularly nor for the majority of their ride it would be a good tyre to chose.

The Hyper isn't an off road tyre no matter how wide it is, that's not to say you can't use it but you balance what you get for tarmac and all its vagaries and the pressure you use against that for when you do go off road and comfort/performance/reliability. That's a long time question that pretty much every person who cycles enthusiastically poses and spends time and money on until they find a sweet spot. Some tyres can offer a middle ground/all around use such as the Hyper, there have been others before and there are in some people's opinions better. it's just that people will swear that xx is the best and dismiss others without having being able to make a direct comparison or even having tried the 'others' which is precisely what you did.

I've put about 1500 miles into the rear (I prefer a narrower front on all my bikes so won't be changing that anytime soon) and that's fast blasts, winter rides, audax, utility, touring and on/off road pootles, I was a bit worried coming from the borough Pro CX which was/is probably Specialized best all around tyre even compared to with the modern offerings. They were c.340g for a 32mm (on a mavic Open 4 at that), flexible sidewalls that help to give a glorious ride, puncture belt, small side knobs, smooth centre and a decent thickness in the tyre overall, that's why I wouldn't settle for rubbish to replace them.

We each have our own thresholds for what we want but you can't discount a tyre when one has zero experience of it to compare.

reohn2
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Re: of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jul 2019, 8:27am

TUC
I can't argue with any of that other to say to each is own,though the bigger the air chamber the more the cushion and I prefer the cushion that Hypers offer with a fast ride on crapmac and rough gravel forest roads,bridleways etc.
When I first began using Hypers I was more than a little apprehensive about using them offroad but as the years and what must be 10,000miles offroad at least,I now have complete faith in them and their speed on the road is quite surprising,with punctures far and few between.
They're my sweet spot after kissing a fair few frogs along the way :D
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Vantage
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Re: of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

Postby Vantage » 22 Jul 2019, 8:47am

I don't believe reohn2 was discounting the Jack Bowns themselves, but thinner tyres in general.
The Hypers in 37mm guess are a pretty bulbous tyre that allow some degree of stupidity/bravery on rougher surfaces with less risk to tyres, tubes and rims.
32/33mm tyres can also allow that, just at lower speeds.
I do like the look of them though. I have a thing for tan walls :)


edit: John got there first :?
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The utility cyclist
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Re: of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

Postby The utility cyclist » 22 Jul 2019, 3:29pm

Vantage wrote:I don't believe reohn2 was discounting the Jack Bowns themselves, but thinner tyres in general.
The Hypers in 37mm guess are a pretty bulbous tyre that allow some degree of stupidity/bravery on rougher surfaces with less risk to tyres, tubes and rims.
32/33mm tyres can also allow that, just at lower speeds.
I do like the look of them though. I have a thing for tan walls :)

edit: John got there first :?


The OP stated something between 32 and 38mm so the nominal 33mm of the JB is within the scope of the question asked, I fitted a new JB to a H+Son TB14 last night, @75PSI - so less than what I use/d it's coming up at 34.7mm.
reohn2 has a huge slant toward bigger tyres and their thinking that they are better/faster (they aren't faster as I proved in the 'bigger tyres' thread last Nov) so It's not surprising that he discounts the JB on width even though it meets the OPs actual scope of tyre width requirement.

And that leads to what stupidity/bravery on rougher surfaces means exactly, it's different things to different folk? The Hyper like the JB isn't an off road tyre they have no tread, if you're running that 37mm off road to be able to do 'stupid' things on rougher terrain - AKA pushing things to the max which isn't a good idea IMO when using a road tyre, then what pressures are you having to run at?

According to reohn2's own use he rides the hyper at 40/45 front and 60/65 rear, if we say compare to the Compass Bon Jon Pass that is a true 35mm tyre and comes out the same Panaracer factory as the Jack Brown's (So there is a lot of similarity to the Jack Brown) the watts consumed compared to the hyper on a permanent semi rough road are very similar at same pressures.

I don't presume the Jack Brown is the same compound/carcass etc as the Compass BJP but they're not a million miles away, measuring up pretty much identical and very similar weight, the BJP comes out at usable tyre pressures to be on a similar level with the Hyper, so on Crr on semi rough roads it would seem the Compass meets that aspect of the OPs question at least as I believe the jack Brown does in all areas both on and off road based on my personal experiences despite its 'narrowness'.

Buy it, don't buy it, IMO it meets the OPs requirement as probably the Compass BJP does and indeed the Schwalbe Almotion also.

tim-b
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Re: of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

Postby tim-b » 22 Jul 2019, 4:43pm

Hi Vantage
You have a PM and a parcel's on it's way
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

reohn2
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Re: of a tyre similar in performance to the almighty Voyager Hyper?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jul 2019, 5:32pm

The utility cyclist wrote:The OP stated something between 32 and 38mm so the nominal 33mm of the JB is within the scope of the question asked, I fitted a new JB to a H+Son TB14 last night, @75PSI - so less than what I use/d it's coming up at 34.7mm.
reohn2 has a huge slant toward bigger tyres and their thinking that they are better/faster (they aren't faster as I proved in the 'bigger tyres' thread last Nov) so It's not surprising that he discounts the JB on width even though it meets the OPs actual scope of tyre width requirement.

No,you didn't prove anything at all we,you and me,had a difference of opinion,as to just how slow the bigger Hyper was.
I'll repeat what I posted a few times on the forum:-
In tests over a 70mile flatish course with one substantial hill included ridden three times in similar conditions,comparing 28mm Gatorskin tyres* on a 10.5kg Thorn Mk3 Audax bike,with a Salsa Vaya weighing 13kg on 37mm actual size Hypers,the latter was within 1mph slower than the 28's.
But,and it's a big one,the difference in comfort was night and day,after the Salsa rides I didn't feel like I'd been out,I maintain that the reason for the closeness of the Salsa/37's to the Thorn/28's was fatigue toward the end of the ride whereas I still felt fresh on the Salsa/37's I was beginning to feel it on the Thorn/28's.Those tests proved a lot to me and as a result I consiquentially sold the Thorn from lack of use thereafter.

*I'd also ridden the same bike on Paselas (and didn't think they were any faster than the Gators)for some time but not in the tests as they'd been binned by that time

And that leads to what stupidity/bravery on rougher surfaces means exactly, it's different things to different folk? The Hyper like the JB isn't an off road tyre they have no tread, if you're running that 37mm off road to be able to do 'stupid' things on rougher terrain - AKA pushing things to the max which isn't a good idea IMO when using a road tyre, then what pressures are you having to run at?

There's no "stupid/bravery" on my part on rough surfaces, the hyper is a slick sure enough but in the bigger size,which(37mm actual size on 19mm internal rim width) is what I ride,I'm able to run them at low pressures(40f 60r) because of that lower psi there's more rubber on the surface be that trail or crapmac and more cushion without any loss of speed.I've done my homework on this over a number of years and a quite a number of different tyres,and arrived at where I am today.
I'm in no way decrying yourself or anyone who rides JB's or 32/33mm tyres that's upto them,as Vantage points out all I'm saying is there's more cushion and more grip from a bigger tyre,but that's not all of it,the suppleness of a high TPI tyre with a thin tread also has it's part to play and in wet weather the tread compound* also plays it's part too.

According to reohn2's own use he rides the hyper at 40/45 front and 60/65 rear, if we say compare to the Compass Bon Jon Pass that is a true 35mm tyre and comes out the same Panaracer factory as the Jack Brown's (So there is a lot of similarity to the Jack Brown) the watts consumed compared to the hyper on a permanent semi rough road are very similar at same pressures.

Is that claim a tested fact or supposition?
Personally I've never tried a Compass tyre due to their cost and because I'm now happy with what do ride,but I have ridden a few on thousand miles on Paselas(not the heavier puncture protection ones) before the UV went to work on the sidewalls and they delaminated and began to crack up,others have had the same problem I believe.
FWIW,in the past I asked Jan Heine on his blog if he'd test Hypers against a similar sized Compass(as was,now Rene Herse)tyre but strangely I got no answer.I say strangely as he's pretty much on the ball with answering any questions put to him,which of course could've been an oversight on his part,but I did ask him twice.

I don't presume the Jack Brown is the same compound/carcass etc as the Compass BJP but they're not a million miles away,measuring up pretty much identical and very similar weight,the BJP comes out at usable tyre pressures to be on a similar level with the Hyper, so on Crr on semi rough roads it would seem the Compass meets that aspect of the OPs question at least as I believe the jack Brown does in all areas both on and off road based on my personal experiences despite its 'narrowness

I agree mostly ,but it's the narrowness that I have issue with riding a road tyre off road and as I stated initially up thread.TBH for my riding I'd like to try a JB in an actual 37mm size,though I feel a 32/33mm tyre would slow me down on some of the tracks and trails I ride.

Buy it, don't buy it, IMO it meets the OPs requirement as probably the Compass BJP does and indeed the Schwalbe Almotion also.

JB would meet the OP's criteria if he wants a 32/33mm tyre,the Compass would too but the price is over the moon.The Almotion I believe is a pretty quick rolling tyre(haven't looked at any tests)but is getting on the heavier side at 500g for a 700x 40mm tyre which is likely to be nearer 35/36mm knowing Schwalbe sizes.By comparison Hypers in the same size weigh 410g and have the high 120tpi carcass.

Just to add,tyre pressures are directly linked to load placed on them,to run overinflated tyres is asking for trouble especially on sketchy road surfaces or in the wet,I know from other threads that you're a pretty big chap 110kg? So you need more air in your tyres whatever section they are,and 75psi maybe about right for you but most people weigh quite a bit lighter so don't need such high pressures in the JB's,personally I'd ride JB's at around 50f 70r as a consiquence they would measure less on the same rim.


*some folks don't like Hypers in the wet,personally I've had no issues with them.
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