E Bike - speeding?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Mike Sales
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Mike Sales » 24 Jul 2019, 9:21pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Taking an evils to 30+ is not significantly harder than taking a non assisted bike to 30+
For use mere mortals it will generally be gravity assisted, so the weight makes no odds.


It is rather harder on mine! Not that I can do 30 mph on a non-electric, but reaching lower speeds is significantly harder on my Sakura. There are no hills were I live.

brynpoeth
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby brynpoeth » 25 Jul 2019, 8:12pm

mattsccm wrote:Here in the Forest of Dean many of the younger "serious" MTB types have ebikes. They make going up easier on bikes that are best suited to go down very fast. The added weight, especially low down apparently makes down hill handling better as well. Those that I know of are almost universally chipped. Every regular rider I know does it. I know that quite a few of them are off road motorcyclists as well and I bet that its the off road speed that is the attraction as much as getting knackered.
Of course almost all use is totally illegal but its not policed so why worry I guess. There will be an accident one day. Some kid doing 20 mph through the cycle centre car park will hit something hard enough to involved the police.

"serious" types?
-1!
What can be done? They are not cyclists!
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Cunobelin
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Cunobelin » 26 Jul 2019, 6:28am

brynpoeth wrote:
mattsccm wrote:Here in the Forest of Dean many of the younger "serious" MTB types have ebikes. They make going up easier on bikes that are best suited to go down very fast. The added weight, especially low down apparently makes down hill handling better as well. Those that I know of are almost universally chipped. Every regular rider I know does it. I know that quite a few of them are off road motorcyclists as well and I bet that its the off road speed that is the attraction as much as getting knackered.
Of course almost all use is totally illegal but its not policed so why worry I guess. There will be an accident one day. Some kid doing 20 mph through the cycle centre car park will hit something hard enough to involved the police.

"serious" types?
-1!
What can be done? They are not cyclists!


They are riding cycles..... therefore by definition, they most certainly are

Eric the Red
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Eric the Red » 26 Jul 2019, 6:52am

The reason why you can't be 'pulled' for speeding on any pedal bike is that there is no legal requirement to have an accurate speedometer on the machine. :D

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Jul 2019, 4:10pm

Eric the Red wrote:The reason why you can't be 'pulled' for speeding on any pedal bike is that there is no legal requirement to have an accurate speedometer on the machine. :D

Not true - it’s that there is no speed limit.

You can be pulled for speeding where there are bylaws imposing a speed limit on cyclists (royal parks) - but not on general roads because there is no speed limit.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Jul 2019, 4:12pm

Mike Sales wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
Taking an evils to 30+ is not significantly harder than taking a non assisted bike to 30+
For use mere mortals it will generally be gravity assisted, so the weight makes no odds.


It is rather harder on mine! Not that I can do 30 mph on a non-electric, but reaching lower speeds is significantly harder on my Sakura. There are no hills were I live.


I can switch the electric drive in and out of my trike - so it’s a direct comparison (tyres, two of the three wheels), most of the gearing is the same. The difference is weight (motor and battery) and the different rear hub.

Is the Sakura otherwise comparable with your non e bikes?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Mike Sales
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Mike Sales » 26 Jul 2019, 4:15pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
I can switch the electric drive in and out of my trike - so it’s a direct comparison (tyres, two of the three wheels), most of the gearing is the same. The difference is weight (motor and battery) and the different rear hub.

Is the Sakura otherwise comparable with your non e bikes?


Not remotely comparable. But that is not relevant to the point I made, I think.

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Cunobelin
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Cunobelin » 27 Jul 2019, 8:46am

It is really rather an irrelevance, why should they need to be comparable?

I have a range of bikes that are more or less difficult to reach speeds or start off.

It is a compromise of the design you choose.

My Catrike Expedition is far easier to accelerate and reaches far higher speeds than the Brompton but does not go on trains or in my office.

Equally, If I go shopping, the Airnimal will get me there quicker but will carry only a fraction of the shopping the much slower Christiania or Pashley Delibike

You choose a bike for overall use and accept the pros and cons. You have not made a bad choice because it carries less shopping than the Christiania, is slower than a recumbent trike, or doesn't fold like a Brompton.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 27 Jul 2019, 2:36pm

My point was that saying that an electric bike doesn’t go as fast because one electric bike doesn’t go as fast as one non electric bike is a bit of odd statement.

It’s not the electric (or otherwise) that makes that difference, it’s all the other design decisions and compromises which are made. You can put an electric drive into a 6kg carbon frame if you want (not sure why you would, but that’s not the point).

The electric assist on a bike doesn’t significantly change its ability to go fast under human power. The bearings in the electric motor might be slightly less good, but the basic physics doesn’t change a lot. You’ll be a couple of percent slower uphill, a bit less than that faster downhill, and the same on the flat - the variances will probably be less that 15psi loss from the tyres.

What the e-drive does allow is fresher legs on the flat and downhill, it brings the minimum speed for 5/6mph up that hill to 10-12mph... that makes a huge difference to journey time.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Aug 2019, 9:54pm

Hi,
Mick F wrote:Sorry, I'll go and stand in the pedant's corner ................... or is it the pedants' corner considering there's more than one of us. :wink:

Three strikes and your out Mick :)
I mean you can wait outside the building :P
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Aug 2019, 10:00pm

Hi,
About two years ago, I was passed by a ebike mtd with some old granddad on it, I had just passed him a minute ago.
I reckon he was doing about 30 mph.
Normally I have no problem overtaking any e bike.

On my recent trip I came across three older than me blokes, all had an e bike, the cheaper ones were three grand :o
One such had a road e bike (not riding at that time) 11 kgs, I said that's not bad my road bike is bare just 10.5, later on he reconfirmed that his road e bike was indeed 11 kgs............. :shock: 5K.................that's where the money is today.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

Grandad
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Grandad » 7 Aug 2019, 11:30pm

5K.................that's where the money is today.

Non e-bike riders have been paying way more than this for road bikes for years - double for top of the range ones.

Ivor Tingting
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Aug 2019, 2:39am

Mick F wrote:Breaking the speed limit is the preserve of the drivers of mechanically propelled vehicles. ie they need an engine be it internal combustion or electricity.

Therefore, a pedal cycle cannot break a speed limit.
Ebikes are classed as pedal cycles. If they weren't you would need a licence and a crash helmet.

Cycling furiously is a different thing to breaking speed limits.


Ebikes and their flippin riders SHOULD be classed as motor vehicles as they are powered by .......... electric motors, should be required to be licensed, insurance, MOT and wearing of BS motorcycle helmets by riders. The fact that they are not is plain wrong. Many I see are ridden far in excess of 15mph which means the electric motors have been deliberately tampered with to increase their top speed.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Ivor Tingting
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Aug 2019, 2:44am

Mick F wrote:So who's going to tell the police, and would they be interested?
Even if there were an accident, who would check if it complies with the regs?
It's a bike after all said and done.


Yeah a MOTOR bike and should be classed as such.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Ivor Tingting
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Aug 2019, 2:59am

mattsccm wrote:Here in the Forest of Dean many of the younger "serious" MTB types have ebikes. They make going up easier on bikes that are best suited to go down very fast. The added weight, especially low down apparently makes down hill handling better as well. Those that I know of are almost universally chipped. Every regular rider I know does it. I know that quite a few of them are off road motorcyclists as well and I bet that its the off road speed that is the attraction as much as getting knackered.
Of course almost all use is totally illegal but its not policed so why worry I guess. There will be an accident one day. Some kid doing 20 mph through the cycle centre car park will hit something hard enough to involved the police.


These people are absolute *****. In the Lakes off road dirt bikes have been banned from many green lanes which has meant also MTBs have been banned as well. The usual story of people take the **** believing because they own something they are entitled to ride or drive it where ever they want destroying fragile habitats.

I reckon it's time official bodies in cycling stood up to the menace of Ebikes and totally disassociated them from traditional cycling and in the process getting them reclassified as MOTOR bikes requiring compliance with motorcycle regulations and legislation with what all that brings. Those "cyclists" who have sold out and ride Ebikes should be ashamed of themselves for selling out from cycling so easily. It's taken many decades to get cycling even partially accepted by most people in this country. Not to mention the massive environmental footprint they have in comparison to pedal all your own effort traditional bicycles without motors. People just don't give a crap about the affect they are having on our environment the damage they are doing directly or indirectly whether it is destroying woodlands riding these Ebikes through at great speed or the damage to planet through mining and pollution caused from the manufacture of electric motors or the powerful batteries to power them. I am all for Ebikes being banned. They have come into existence simply because people are too lazy and selfish or simply wish to corrupt cycling by riding high power machines with no regulation. It stinks.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.