E Bike - speeding?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
reohn2
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby reohn2 » 10 Aug 2019, 7:28pm

brynpoeth wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote: ........I am done and out.

One must be glad for small blessings :D

I earnestly hope he comes back!

He's probably expressing himself on some other cycling forum somewhere :wink: :roll:
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Oldjohnw
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Oldjohnw » 11 Aug 2019, 4:50am

brynpoeth wrote:Because e-bikes are apparently not about going fast, as others claim elsewhere, I do not understand that :?
..
If you want to go faster you can pedal

E-bikes are bulky and heavy too, more disadvantages for frail old riders
E-bikes should be a last resort when one can no longer use a standard cycle,there should be very few €-bikes


When you've reached 70+, have a health problem - even attained some level of human frailty (it happens to the best of us) - and done 1000km on an ebike, come and tell us whether or not they are real bikes and about the effort required. Give us an expert review. I presume you don't yet have gears fitted to your bike.

Personally I wouldn't mind a lower limit but that suits my need. Others have different needs such as DaveBeck and Peterb. I don't get why we have to make others inferior (such as claiming that they don't use real bikes) just because they are not us.
John

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Cunobelin
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Cunobelin » 11 Aug 2019, 10:15am

brynpoeth wrote:No, the maximum limit should be reduced, maybe to15 kmh

Argue nicely please :wink:



What do you mean by speed limit?

Is that assisted speed?
Is it an overall limit?
Why reduce the present speed limit for EAPC?
Why on one page have you increased your undefined limit from 12 to 15?

It would be interesting to know what you actually mean.

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Cunobelin
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Cunobelin » 11 Aug 2019, 10:35am

brynpoeth wrote:Because e-bikes are apparently not about going fast, as others claim elsewhere, I do not understand that :?
..
If you want to go faster you can pedal


It is a simple choice of bike type... like a folder, tourer, racer, hybrid. You choose what suits YOUR needs and style of riding

E-bikes are bulky and heavy too, more disadvantages for frail old riders



Have you actually seen or ridden one in the last 5 years?

Advan es in motor and battery technology have dropped the weight and size. the modern ebikes are neither. A typical Raleigh e-bike is about 28 kg, not unmanageable and with a bottle or rack battery no bigger than an ordinary bike

Simple demographics prove you wrong. These are the very people who are purchasing these ebikes in their droves. It there was that much of a problem. then we would see them flooding the second-hand market in a couple of months. That is not happening because the problems of being bulky or heavy are being overexaggerated.


E-bikes should be a last resort when one can no longer use a standard cycle, there should be very few €-bikes
[/quote][/quote]

I can use both and have no problem with using either. Why on earth should we restrict these bikes to the last resort?

Recumbents are non-standard or traditional bikes can be of advantage if you have back problems, do we restrict those to a "last resort" as well?

What about low step height bikes, should they be the last resort?

Reality is that no-one has the right to prevent someone from buying a folder, recumbent, utility bike, or e-bike on their own personal hatred for that particular format

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Cugel
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Cugel » 11 Aug 2019, 12:08pm

Cunobelin wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Because e-bikes are apparently not about going fast, as others claim elsewhere, I do not understand that :?
..
If you want to go faster you can pedal


It is a simple choice of bike type... like a folder, tourer, racer, hybrid. You choose what suits YOUR needs and style of riding

E-bikes are bulky and heavy too, more disadvantages for frail old riders



Have you actually seen or ridden one in the last 5 years?

Advan es in motor and battery technology have dropped the weight and size. the modern ebikes are neither. A typical Raleigh e-bike is about 28 kg, not unmanageable and with a bottle or rack battery no bigger than an ordinary bike

Simple demographics prove you wrong. These are the very people who are purchasing these ebikes in their droves. It there was that much of a problem. then we would see them flooding the second-hand market in a couple of months. That is not happening because the problems of being bulky or heavy are being overexaggerated.


brynpoeth wrote:E-bikes should be a last resort when one can no longer use a standard cycle, there should be very few €-bikes.


I can use both and have no problem with using either. Why on earth should we restrict these bikes to the last resort?

Recumbents are non-standard or traditional bikes can be of advantage if you have back problems, do we restrict those to a "last resort" as well?

What about low step height bikes, should they be the last resort?

Reality is that no-one has the right to prevent someone from buying a folder, recumbent, utility bike, or e-bike on their own personal hatred for that particular format


I yam sending Bryn an old typewriter with some paper and envelopes. He will have to buy his own stamps, though. As he is agin' the electrickery he will wish to post future forum musings via the paper & ink method. Also, he will need to set up the horse-based mail service as even an ICE transport mechanism uses the e-juice.

On the other hand, Bryn could find a better subject with which to practice his rather clunky act as a curmudgeon. And he does need practice, as the current performance is highly unconvincing. I can only advise a closer study of DIngbat posts for pointers and examples of the style. :-)

Cugel

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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Aug 2019, 8:39pm

I already have a typewriter, diolch, actually I like writing letters by hand

Could anyone suggest an alternative term to 'real bike'?

I note that the Eisteddfod Cenedlaethol is in Tregaron next year, hoping to meet Cugel there, we could argue in Welsh :wink:
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Oldjohnw
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Oldjohnw » 11 Aug 2019, 9:15pm

brynpoeth wrote:I already have a typewriter, diolch, actually I like writing letters by hand

Could anyone suggest an alternative term to 'real bike'?

I note that the Eisteddfod Cenedlaethol is in Tregaron next year, hoping to meet Cugel there, we could argue in Welsh :wink:



Why not "bike"? My bike has two wheels, a number of gears, brakes front and rear and requires pedalling to make it move forwards. The more I pedal the faster it goes. Just like yours, I assume.
John

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brynpoeth
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby brynpoeth » 12 Aug 2019, 4:55am

Oldjohnw wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:I already have a typewriter, diolch, actually I like writing letters by hand

Could anyone suggest an alternative term to 'real bike'?

I note that the Eisteddfod Cenedlaethol is in Tregaron next year, hoping to meet Cugel there, we could argue in Welsh :wink:



Why not "bike"? My bike has two wheels, a number of gears, brakes front and rear and requires pedalling to make it move forwards. The more I pedal the faster it goes es. Just like yours, I assume.

Both are wrong
It is not quite a bicycle but not quite a motorbike, I shall use the latter
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Cunobelin
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Aug 2019, 6:38am

brynpoeth wrote:I already have a typewriter, diolch, actually I like writing letters by hand

Could anyone suggest an alternative term to 'real bike'?

I note that the Eisteddfod Cenedlaethol is in Tregaron next year, hoping to meet Cugel there, we could argue in Welsh :wink:



As so many times above, we could just drop the personal hatred, accept that cycling is a wide and eclectic field and that there there is no such thing.

There are hundreds of different formats shapes, sizes, numbers of wheels, and a thousand other things

For instance, is a "racing bike" a "real" due to its impractical nature and inability to carry shopping or touring panniers?

Each has its own merits, and people have the choice as to what they buy and use.

A "real bike" for person A is not the same as a "real bike" for person B, C, D. E, F, G, H, I......etc

Electrical assist is simply another factor in the choice


PS Do you still feel unable to support and explain your varying speed limit demands?

Oldjohnw
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Aug 2019, 7:03am

brynpoeth wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:I already have a typewriter, diolch, actually I like writing letters by hand

Could anyone suggest an alternative term to 'real bike'?

I note that the Eisteddfod Cenedlaethol is in Tregaron next year, hoping to meet Cugel there, we could argue in Welsh :wink:



Why not "bike"? My bike has two wheels, a number of gears, brakes front and rear and requires pedalling to make it move forwards. The more I pedal the faster it goes es. Just like yours, I assume.

Both are wrong
It is not quite a bicycle but not quite a motorbike, I shall use the latter


And I shall continue to go on bike rides on my bike.
John

Cycling and recycling

reohn2
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby reohn2 » 12 Aug 2019, 9:37am

Cunobelin wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:I already have a typewriter, diolch, actually I like writing letters by hand

Could anyone suggest an alternative term to 'real bike'?

I note that the Eisteddfod Cenedlaethol is in Tregaron next year, hoping to meet Cugel there, we could argue in Welsh :wink:



As so many times above, we could just drop the personal hatred, accept that cycling is a wide and eclectic field and that there there is no such thing.

There are hundreds of different formats shapes, sizes, numbers of wheels, and a thousand other things

For instance, is a "racing bike" a "real" due to its impractical nature and inability to carry shopping or touring panniers?

Each has its own merits, and people have the choice as to what they buy and use.

A "real bike" for person A is not the same as a "real bike" for person B, C, D. E, F, G, H, I......etc

Electrical assist is simply another factor in the choice......

Quite!
Though I strongly suspect thay for the zealot,anything outside their blinkered world view there'll never be a consensus
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JohnW
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby JohnW » 12 Aug 2019, 2:05pm

After all the insults and scratching each others' eyes out, the question of speed and misuse of e-bikes is a serious one.

On my local Greenway the number of e-bikes is definitely on the increase and many users are not by any means elderly. The Greenway, in it's 7-mile length, passes through several residential districts, two small towns and employment hubs, and terminates at one end in a large business/commercial/light industrial park. These all generate comparatively heavy cycle traffic (which, of course is good) especially at commuting times.

All good so far, but individual human behaviour becomes an element. Apart from scroats, yoofs and young daft lads quite a few of the commuters are people old enough to know better, but who ride the Greenway with the motorists' mentality and apparently take the view that it is for children, the elderly, disabled buggy users, ladies walking their dogs, families, partially sighted etc, etc, etc to "get out of the way" - It's the potential victims' responsibility to "get out of the way". And it's dreadful...........and becoming more and more common.

And speed comes into it. There are some people on bikes (I hesitate to use the term 'cyclist' for all of them, because cyclists are better than that) who ride as fast as they can, immature mentality, possibly to impress, with no consideration or respect for others - we've all witnessed this - I could relate some of the things that I've seen which would be difficult to believe.

But to return to e-bikes. To attain 15mph is one thing, within the capability of many (if not most) of us. To maintain 15mph indefinitely is something else on cycleways/Greenways/footpaths etc and potentially dangerous to others. The 15mph law is fine if taken as part of a civilised, considerate approach to the people around us, but there are those who don't practice a civilised, considerate approach.

Don't laugh at me fort his next bit. I'm no speed merchant youngster any more, but there's a very quiet length of our local Greenway, gently downhill on railway gradient, and soon after joining I'm at 15mph immediately - nice cruising speed. The length is easily a quarter of a mile long and almost straight. Just for the hell of it, with no-one about, I'm at 25mph before I have to slow down before visibility demands a deceleration to 12mph-ish. That's just me, an old man, on a decent bike. There are some lightweight, racy looking e-bikes around now and given a 15mph start could outspeed that, with the powered assistance turned off.

So, in short, I can have some understanding for what Bryn means. Constant 15mph in Greenway/cyclepath/footpath conditions (i.e. Sustrans ethos) isn't always safe for others and can easily lead to higher speeds - remember that there's no max speed limit on our ("proper") bikes.

Putting a statutory speed limit on e-bikes could be a major (and unenforceable) problem, and would affect us all, because it probably wouldn't end there. This is just my opinion, and I'm not going to enter into debate about it, but for what it's worth I think that if someone really NEEDS an e-bike, rather than just wanting a cheap and easily obtainable (and legal) substitute for a motor scooter/bike/car quadcycle then 12mph powered maximum would be fast enough. A lot of adult utility and leisure cycling won't much exceed 12mph on the level (I'm not talking about competition or events, just cycling).

I think that Bryn is being a bit unfairly treated here, and it is actually a very serious issue. Abuse of the e-bike could lead to legislation to the dis-benefit of us all.

Oldjohnw
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Aug 2019, 2:27pm

Just for accuracy, Bryn advocated 12kph, not mph.

The difference is not insignificant.
John

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SAJM
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby SAJM » 12 Aug 2019, 2:31pm

eBikes are seen by the general public as very "green" and a way of getting older people out and about, the media love them at the moment.

Of course there is some abuse but it's sufficiently low key that the media, police and council jobsworths have not picked up on it.
In the near future there will be a fatality of some sort involving an ebike, the media, politicians and FB forums will go hysterical resulting in knee jerk legislation to the detriment of all of us.

My money is on the inevitability of cycles being licensed and insured.
Last edited by SAJM on 13 Aug 2019, 11:48pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnW
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Re: E Bike - speeding?

Postby JohnW » 12 Aug 2019, 2:55pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Just for accuracy, Bryn advocated 12kph, not mph.

The difference is not insignificant.

Yes - the figures in my post are entirely mine, they are what I think and don't relate to anyone else's.
If anyone has their own conclusions and beliefs then they'll relate to, and be valid within, their own experience and observation.
I'm not referring to Bryn's actual figures.