Living without owning an internal combustion engine

[reohn2]

well if the question is living without my own personal .... then easy in a city like London esp if you have a Freedom Pass to use the buses/trains/tubes within London. But if you live in the sticks where buses are once in a blue moon I cant see how you can avoid having a car or motor bike,as there will be times when the weather is bad or cold, or you are not well, where riding a cycle could be masochistic at best? Living in London I now sorn my m/c for most of the year and just put it on the road for a couple of months in the summer. What we maybe need is an option of Pay-As-You-Go road tax so that you can keep the car etc off road most of the time just putting it back for that occasion when a cycle is just too much? The trouble with rental is that it can be very expensive, and you have to go and collect it?

We as a country could put 50p on fuel duty and scrap VED,with a big tax on gas guzzlers and larger private vehicles.We could then ringfence that cash for public transport along with renationalising all public transport for the good of the nation.which would be run by responsible individuals who know what's what and paid well for their service,not idiots like Failing Grayling who's in the pocket of anyone who greases his palm and who can't tell his arris from his elbow!
That would be a huge step forward.

[mattheus]

...

How, or whether, to change that reliance in future is another (related) discussion and is very much a personal decision based on circumstances, unless it becomes a forced issue through external factors whether they be medical/situational or government induced. I have chosen to reduce my reliance on a car, not because I have to but because I want to. If you or anyone else don't want to then that's your choice. However, acknowledging that it's a decision, that has consequences, is important.

I was playing DA
The only way society(not isolated individuals) will change is if it has to either by legislation or same/better/cheaper/more convenient alternative way to travel.
Its inconceiveable that so many people's jounery by car is less than 5miles,but only so because those people are helped by a failed transport and political system so bad in the first instance and and so far up it's rear end in the second that it cant see the light of day!

You're both right.

Re: car trips less than 5 miles - there are studies showing enormous numbers of trips of *1* mile or less! It's hard to blame that on the government.

[amediasatex]

indeed, I don't blame that (solely) on the government, although they have had their part in it, but as reohn says, they're probably the ones who could start fixing it as clearly most people won't make the sensible choice without being pushed.

I despair at the people* in my office who drive to work but live closer than I do (3 miles). There are about half a dozen at least who live between me and our office, and another half dozen at roughly the same distance (Not to mention others in neighbouring offices). Not only do they drive in, they all do it independently in their own cars, often queuing behind each other in the same traffic jam.

They are without exception, all able bodied adults with no compelling reason to do that journey by car other than wanting to, many probably haven't even considered that they don't have to, despite seeing several of their colleagues arriving by bike, bus and on foot each day

* One of the most prolific offender also drives from our office to the motorway services most lunchtimes to buy his lunch. That trip is 0.5 miles on foot, and 1 mile by car due to road layout.

My earlier comments were mostly about trying to get people to acknowledge the role that easy access to personal cars has had on the way they and society has built modern life, and that it is a choice not an inevitable necessity as some claim.

[Ivor Tingting]

....... or Ebikers lying to themselves that they are cycling and deluded that they are saving the planet when they are not........

Perhaps you could point us to where on the forum anyone's said that or even alluded to it?

The Ebike would be a perfect answer to anyone wishing go carless if they thought cycling everywhere was too much for them for whatever reason,if you'd put aside the blinkered prejudice against Ebikes you expressed in the electric bike part of this forum,you may be able to see more clearly the many advantages the Ebike can offer over a car especially for city and urban dwellers.
After initial outlay an Ebike costs next to nothing to run over a conventional bike,and doesn't litter crowded street with a tonne or more of metal when not in use,it also offers the freedom of cycling plus some of the benefits to those who otherwise may not be able to cycle either due to distance,health,age or a myriad of other reasons best known to themselves .
Please don't put down Ebikes if you own and run a car as your argument just doesn't stack up.

And this is the ignorant fallacy that E-bikers sorry motor-bicyclists use to justify their bad environmental choice of transport. The bicycle is already a perfectly environmentally friendly means of transport to get around on. But no, the lazy brigade can't be bothered to pedal for themselves so now there is a market for bicycles which have motors and big polluting batteries to power them plus lots more un-environmentally friendly hard plastic. Are you totally ignorant of the materials and processes in manufacturing these motors and batteries, the damage done to the environment? A conventional bicycle simply doesn't have this dirty great footprint. Then you have to keep them charged from an electricity grid fed by power stations which a conventional bicycle does not need. The choice is an all your own effort bike conventional bicycle or one with a motor and battery or even several motors and further batteries. There is no car option. E-bikes are the steady corruption of cycling and I am staggered that so many people are such hypocrites to even consider them when traditional bicycles are such a perfect means of transport in every way. As for your assertion that those with medical conditions or physical impairments or those of advanced years ride them is utter rubbish. I reckon most of the motorbicycles I see are ridden by fit looking young people many in Pro cycling kit who simply want to ride a lot faster without putting in the effort. I see many road bike E-bikes. One guy has a front wheel motor the size of a dinner plate plus a huge bottom bracket motor and he must be riding at a speed of about 30-35mph. More worryingly they use cycling infrastructure intended for traditional cycling not only putting normal cyclists at risk but also pedestrians. Those that ride motorbicycles should only be allowed to ride them on the roads and should like motorcycles be subject to MOTs, insurance and riders be compelled to wear BS approved helmets.

[amediasatex]

IF an eBike makes the difference between someone getting in a car and not it's worthwhile in my opinion.

They are not zero-impact, but they are vastly reduced compared to a car in both raw material, construction and ongoing impact, congestion, danger to other users, noise pollution, space occupation, and not to mention not belching out crap into the air we have to breathe in urban environments.

There are many people who are genuinely not fit or able enough to use a normal bicycle for many trips. And then a great many more who might use them for very short unladen trips, but wouldn't if it were further or they needed to carry anything, so they use a car instead, eBikes can and do work for those people.

Zero-impact is a laudible goal, but I'll take 100 eBikers leaving their car behind Vs 5 using a 'normal' bike and the other 95 staying in the car thank you, heck I'd even be pretty happy with half of them using mopeds instead of big single occupancy overpowered cars.

I reckon most of the motorbicycles I see are ridden by fit looking young people many in Pro cycling kit who simply want to ride a lot faster without putting in the effort. I see many road bike E-bikes. One guy has a front wheel motor the size of a dinner plate plus a botton bracket motor and he must be riding at a speed of about 30-35mph.

eBikes (pedalecs) in the UK are restricted in power output and the assist must cut out at 15mph. Anyone travelling faster on them is either using an illegal unrestricted one* or doing it under their own steam, (which you can do on an unpowered bike too). And please do not conflate the bad behaviour of a minority group of people with the mode of transport as a whole. I fear this is a discussion for another thread though.

*Or using a different classification of machine which DOES need insurance and a helmet and use on the road only etc.

[Vantage]

I know a few former club cyclists who through age have taken to ebikes in order to continue to cycle. I myself at the old age of 43 (cough) am only a few years away from converting my own bike for an efront wheel due to issues with my legs.
Many ebike riders use them because of impairments you don't see or maybe they don't want to arrive at work drenched in sweat, not unreasonable.

[reohn2]

You're both right.

Re: car trips less than 5 miles - there are studies showing enormous numbers of trips of *1* mile or less! It's hard to blame that on the government.

It is when motorists can park wherever they damn well please and no one will do a thing about,outside schools,two wheels on the pavement,etc,etc.Im convinced motorist would take the car into the shop with them if they could!
On the entrance to the estate I live on is a parade of shops,the turning off the main road at certain times of day cars park on both sides of the road.
It's a bus route around the estate and I've lost count of the times the bus driver has had to stop the bus and get out enquiring in the shops as to whose cars they are because the road is blocked
One lunchtime I even heard a n illegal parking offender on double yellows,complaining to the bus driver that he'd lose his place in the chip shop queue.The problem has been reported umpteen times and still mo one is booked

[Ivor Tingting]

IF an eBike makes the difference between someone getting in a car and not it's worthwhile in my opinion.

They are not zero-impact, but they are vastly reduced compared to a car in both raw material, construction and ongoing impact, congestion, danger to other users, noise pollution, space occupation, and not to mention not belching out crap into the air we have to breathe in urban environments.

There are many people who are genuinely not fit or able enough to use a normal bicycle for many trips. And then a great many more who might use them for very short unladen trips, but wouldn't if it were further or they needed to carry anything, so they use a car instead, eBikes can and do work for those people.

Zero-impact is a laudible goal, but I'll take 100 eBikers leaving their car behind Vs 5 using a 'normal' bike and the other 95 staying in the car thank you.

People are just so ******** lazy and selfish. If they weren't then they wouldn't buy motor bicycles. Period. They'e in a bike shop. Non motorised conventional bicycle or motorised bicycle. Nah I can't be ****d to pedal all myself! Sod the environment I'll have an E-bike. So now millions of these things are being made pillaging the planet for more precious resources and precious metals destroying landscapes to make the motors and batteries for the selfish people who buy them. And how are motor bicycles recycled come the end of their lives? They will likely end up in a canal or at the bottom of the oceans creating an environmental disaster that was totally avoidable and attributable to peoples' sloth. I have ridden all my life and am now over 60. I will ride a conventional bicycle until I die and hopefully I have many decades left. I would not even contemplate riding a motorised bicycle. Protecting the planet is fundamental. To ride an E-bike motorised bicycle is totally at odds with traditional cycling.

[Mike Sales]

About 20% of UK households do not have a car.

http://www.greenmotor.co.uk/2011/03/uk-census-car-ownership-and-electric.html

Interesting discussion of potential electric car market, and numbers of two and three car households.

There are about 46m. driving licence holders in the UK.

[reohn2]

IF an eBike makes the difference between someone getting in a car and not it's worthwhile in my opinion.

They are not zero-impact, but they are vastly reduced compared to a car in both raw material, construction and ongoing impact, congestion, danger to other users, noise pollution, space occupation, and not to mention not belching out crap into the air we have to breathe in urban environments.

There are many people who are genuinely not fit or able enough to use a normal bicycle for many trips. And then a great many more who might use them for very short unladen trips, but wouldn't if it were further or they needed to carry anything, so they use a car instead, eBikes can and do work for those people.

Zero-impact is a laudible goal, but I'll take 100 eBikers leaving their car behind Vs 5 using a 'normal' bike and the other 95 staying in the car thank you.

People are just so ******* lazy and selfish. If they weren't then they wouldn't buy motor bicycles. Period. They'e in a bike shop. Non motorised conventional bicycle or motorised bicycle. Nah I can't be ****d to pedal all myself! Sod the environment I'll have an E-bike. So now millions of these things are being made pillaging the planet for more precious resources and precious metals destroying landscapes to make the motors and batteries for the selfish people who buy them. And how are motor bicycles recycled come the end of their lives? They will likely end up in a canal or at the bottom of the oceans creating an environmental disaster that was totally avoidable and attributable to peoples' sloth. I have ridden all my life and am now over 60. I will ride a conventional bicycle until I die and hopefully I have many decades left. I would not even contemplate riding a motorised bicycle. Protecting the planet is fundamental. To ride an E-bike motorised bicycle is totally at odds with traditional cycling.

These rapers and pillagers of the planet are raping and pillaging a lot less than motorists, and for everyone of them there's one less car.
Which means at some point there maybe more of them than cars which in turn means the government might take notice and provide better facilities for all cyclists including Ebike riders(which are classified as cyclists BTW).

Perhaps you could tell us what you'd do if you no long were able to ride the distances you do and enjoy cycling as much as you do presently?
You could have a long think of the overall picture rather than your own myopic view of what cycling should be all about,according to your own skewed outlook

Edit:- Here's a thought,how much raping and pillaging(you words not mine)do you hink has taken place to get the food you eat to your table or the materials it took to build your house or to lay the tarmac on the road you cycle on or the bicycle you ride or the clothes and footwear you wear?
Edit No 2:-To be perfectly frank,I think you're talking out of your bottom

[andrew_s]

we are seeing outbreaks of luxury housing developments right next to "well connected" motorway junctions. gawd help us ...

On the other hand, round here I'm seeing a considerable increase in town centre housing (conversion of old Victorian era mill buildings etc, and similar new build blocks).
I'd guess that these must be selling to those who have the wit to see the writing on the wall.

If you do live and work in a larger town with a railway station, there's very little need for a car.
My non-car-use record was about 10.5 months, ended by VED/MOT requirements. It was a New Year "don't use the car for short journeys" resolution, extended beyond May by a flat battery and the reluctance to buy a replacement charger for the one I knew I'd got hiding somewhere. Since, I've made a point of at least giving it some exercise if I've not used it otherwise for a month or so (usually Waitrose in Cheltenham, 9 or 10 miles off)

[amediasatex]

To ride an E-bike motorised bicycle is totally at odds with traditional cycling.

It's not at odds with getting people to drive less, and reducing the impact of car use.

Reducing physical car size
Reducing harmful emissions
Reducing unnecessary journeys
Increasing vehicle occupancy
Increasing vehicle efficiency

Are all also other ways to improve and reduce the impact, moving people from large inefficient polluting cars to smaller, more efficient, less polluting modes of transport is a good thing.

[foxyrider]

Hi all,
does anyone here use a bicycle as their sole means of transport? As lifelong cyclist and car/motorcycle owner I'm thinking of going bicycle only though it may be a little more difficult at my age (68) Any thoughts? Has anyone already done this?

At 56 I've never owned a car, don't even have a licence. That doesn't mean I never travel in one, I do, but just not to the extent much of the population do.

It can be quite a pain at times and certainly restrictive. Most of the time its just a matter of planning but there are times when weather, injury or illness keeps you off two wheels when driving would let you still do stuff.

[Oldjohnw]

People like Ivor Tingling simply have no idea of the mobility difficulties some people have. Others have not cycled all their lives but tried to take it up in their 60s and 70s in order to reduce or eliminate car use. An ebike, whikdt not perfect, makes this possible.

I just do not understand why he appears to go out of his way to be so insulting.

[Cugel]

....... or Ebikers lying to themselves that they are cycling and deluded that they are saving the planet when they are not........

Perhaps you could point us to where on the forum anyone's said that or even alluded to it?

The Ebike would be a perfect answer to anyone wishing go carless if they thought cycling everywhere was too much for them for whatever reason,if you'd put aside the blinkered prejudice against Ebikes you expressed in the electric bike part of this forum,you may be able to see more clearly the many advantages the Ebike can offer over a car especially for city and urban dwellers.
After initial outlay an Ebike costs next to nothing to run over a conventional bike,and doesn't litter crowded street with a tonne or more of metal when not in use,it also offers the freedom of cycling plus some of the benefits to those who otherwise may not be able to cycle either due to distance,health,age or a myriad of other reasons best known to themselves .
Please don't put down Ebikes if you own and run a car as your argument just doesn't stack up.

And this is the ignorant fallacy that E-bikers sorry motor-bicyclists use to justify their bad environmental choice of transport. The bicycle is already a perfectly environmentally friendly means of transport to get around on. But no, the lazy brigade can't be bothered to pedal for themselves so now there is a market for bicycles which have motors and big polluting batteries to power them plus lots more un-environmentally friendly hard plastic. Are you totally ignorant of the materials and processes in manufacturing these motors and batteries, the damage done to the environment? A conventional bicycle simply doesn't have this dirty great footprint. Then you have to keep them charged from an electricity grid fed by power stations which a conventional bicycle does not need. The choice is an all your own effort bike conventional bicycle or one with a motor and battery or even several motors and further batteries. There is no car option. E-bikes are the steady corruption of cycling and I am staggered that so many people are such hypocrites to even consider them when traditional bicycles are such a perfect means of transport in every way. As for your assertion that those with medical conditions or physical impairments or those of advanced years ride them is utter rubbish. I reckon most of the motorbicycles I see are ridden by fit looking young people many in Pro cycling kit who simply want to ride a lot faster without putting in the effort. I see many road bike E-bikes. One guy has a front wheel motor the size of a dinner plate plus a huge bottom bracket motor and he must be riding at a speed of about 30-35mph. More worryingly they use cycling infrastructure intended for traditional cycling not only putting normal cyclists at risk but also pedestrians. Those that ride motorbicycles should only be allowed to ride them on the roads and should like motorcycles be subject to MOTs, insurance and riders be compelled to wear BS approved helmets.

You seem to know little to nothing about e-bikes, as well as nothing about paragraphs. This is a fatal combination that torpedoes your own rhetoric in this matter. As that rhetoric is also not much better than a paper-mache dingy with a sail of tissue paper, it has all sunk!

Still, your rantin' is amusin'. Do launch another hoot-yelp, oh do.

Cugel