Living without owning an internal combustion engine

[reohn2]

Do we disagree on everything? I almost hope so!

You're an antagonist for your own reasons .

I do not want people who could use real bikes switching to e-bikes

Others have a different outlook on life than you,live with it or move,the choice is yours.

I do not own a vehicle, gave mine up recently, plan never to own one again!

Well good for you


Edit; don't move to NL the number cyclist there may do your head in altogether

[Cyril Haearn]

What do you want?

[reohn2]

What do you want?

Not tellin'

[thelawnet]

You can see that the biggest slice is electricity and heat generation. This is heavily skewed per person such that if you live in an industrialised country it will be vastly higher per person than someone living in a pre-industrial society. It is arguably the case that individuals in countries that consume products that are not manufactured there effectively 'export pollution' to other countries. Furthermore if you live in the temperate/cold latitudes your energy footprint for heating/electricity is liable to be much greater too. In total if you live in North America or Northern Europe and live an 'ordinary' life you probably are responsible for several times the CO2 output per person vs the global average.

It could be argued that heat is a necessity, though of course 'necessity' varies; people also live in very hot weather with no air conditioning, but it's quite the norm in rich wealthy areas.

Apparently Australia's per capita electricity consumption is twice that of the UK.

There are lots of things that turn out not to be 'necessary', e.g., hot water, heating/cooling.

I noted here

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=128978

that electricity production in say Indonesia turns out to be less than 1/10 of the UK (consumption is around 1/7 of the UK rate)

There are billions of people itching to use VASTLY more resources.

It is not quite clear to me the relevance of Western consumer consumption in this wider context.

[Brucey]

There are billions of people itching to use VASTLY more resources.

It is not quite clear to me the relevance of Western consumer consumption in this wider context.

well the rest of the world wants to consume like 'western consumers' already are doing. We are using up the planet's resources at an alarming and unsustainable rate; about as if there were six planet's worth available or something, instead of one. Riding a bike and not driving a car will help for sure but that still leaves the other five point nine planet's worth of resources to contend with....

cheers

[horizon]

the thing is that personal ownership (and moderate use) of an internal combustion engine is liable to represent only a tiny fraction of any single person's impact on the planet. There are other things that are likely to be far more important than that.

I came across a similar thing recently with regard to recycling: as much as we might be pleased when household recycling (the bit we as consumers do) hits 60% or whatever, the truth is that at least 50% of all waste is industrial and commercial, particularly building waste. I concluded (to save my sanity) that my realm of interest and responsibility was household waste (starting with my own but banging on about it generally). I just hoped that someone else was looking at commercial waste (which they are apparently). So same with energy: cars aren't the whole picture (as you rightly point out) but they are my bugbear so that's what gets my attention.

[Vorpal]

I don't quite understand what the problem with e-bikes is. People select their travel mode by convenience. If we want to get them out of cars and using active travel, we need to make it as easy as possible. If e-bikes are part of that, I'm all for it.

I do not want people who could use real bikes switching to e-bikes

Switching from what? If they'ver switching from cars, it's much better. If an e-bike allows them to cycle when they wouldn't, also fine.

*could* seems to imply should, which isn't necessarily so. My bike ride to work in winter, takes much longer, so I tend not to do it as often. Without a car, I usually use the bus. I have a colleague, though, who recently bought an e-bike. He has sold his car and now rides to work every day. He used to drive every day in winter, and cycle occasionally in summer.

I think it's an improvement.

[horizon]

I don't quite understand what the problem with e-bikes is.

I think there is a discussion to be had, but not on this thread. Getting rid of your car, or never owning one, is a pretty big decision IMV if you live in the UK. Ebikes are part of the "OK, then which bike should I get?" discussion.

There is another discussion as well: should I never use a car myself? Most not-owning-a-car discussions are resolved as, "Well you can always borrow or hire one when you need it". I've got a lot of sympathy for that as it probably means you won't bother anyway!

[Debs]

What do you want?

Not tellin'

Oh go on

“Well we wanna be free, we wannna be free to do what we wanna do.
We wanna be free to ride.
We wanna be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the man.
And we wanna get loaded.
And we wanna have a good time.
And that’s what we’re gonna do.
We’re gonna have a good time.
We’re gonna have a party!”

[Cyril Haearn]

An LBS near me was looking for salespersons
Requirements: one should like cycling (not compulsory!), like talking, Plus Two I thought
Did not bother applying though because I should have had to try to persuade cyclists to upgrad€ to €-bikes, to spend a few thousand instead of a few hundred, gr€at for business, new batteries, tyres wear quicker

Real bikes are preferable to e-bikes!

Less travel is desirable, though I fear a few on here disagree even with this

Trouble is, the law of unintended consequences

[Cyril Haearn]

An unfavourite bete noir of mine is the abba-syndrome, people living at A and working at B whole others live at B and work at A
Because driving great distances and using lots of time is far too cheap

It would be interesting to know how many Nottingham people work in Derby, for example, and vice-versa, or Leeds and Bradford, etc etc
I bet many thousands could simply swap, they just need to be nudged

[Oldjohnw]

Let's have a Soviet state. The state can overrule all choices and it will be much more efficient. Remember that example in Russia? Nothing so inefficient as living in one place and working elsewhere. Send everyone to the factory making useless objects and make them live in shacks just outside the gate.

[francovendee]

Care must be taken when condemning the use of a car, somethings are impossible or extremely difficult without one.
I guess I could move to a large town but I'm not doing that just to avoid using a car the small amount we do.
Until you know the full details nobody should criticise others use of a car.

Hear hear!

What a queer statement I cannae know all about you. Trying to introduce censorship?

I have learnt a lot here, had disagreements, surely one can accept that, laugh quite a bit too
Apparently many other fora are much nastier

Strange remark.
Until you know all the facts before making any sweeping statement, how can anyone judge another's choices. No intent to introduce censorship on here, that's the moderators job.
I enjoy the discussions here but get fed up with the 'flag wavers' who won't take a wider look. I'm not talking about this thread.
I've had my eyes opened to other's views more than a few times and had my take on things altered.

[reohn2]

Let's have a Soviet state. The state can overrule all choices and it will be much more efficient. Remember that example in Russia? Nothing so inefficient as living in one place and working elsewhere. Send everyone to the factory making useless objects and make them live in shacks just outside the gate.

There's enough examples of the same sort of control in times not so long past in this green and pleasant land,though the objects made were useful but the workers were 'owned' as work slaves.
The extremes of politics whether that be right or left never end well for the majority of any given society.

I digress,other than to say there's a couple on this thread with extreme views who'd like to control society for their own ends.

[reohn2]

Hear hear!

What a queer statement I cannae know all about you. Trying to introduce censorship?

I have learnt a lot here, had disagreements, surely one can accept that, laugh quite a bit too
Apparently many other fora are much nastier

Strange remark.
Until you know all the facts before making any sweeping statement, how can anyone judge another's choices. No intent to introduce censorship on here, that's the moderators job.m
I enjoy the discussions here but get fed up with the 'flag wavers' who won't take a wider look. I'm not talking about this thread.
I've had my eyes opened to other's views more than a few times and had my take on things altered.

There's some strange folk about alright,purists on this thread wear some pretty narrow blinkers and only go as far as forum rules allow though they do like to antagonise others.
One wonders how they'de fare at getting camels through the eye of needles