Living without owning an internal combustion engine

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Vorpal
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Vorpal » 7 Aug 2019, 3:34pm

pete75 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:You think we're all doomed, so we should just carry on messing it up? :cry:

We have a duty to limit that harm as much as possible for our children, and the future of the human race.


If we're all doomed what's the point- we may as well carry on as we are.

It won't be the end of life on earth we are just one amongst thousands of species many of which we've driven to extinction or the edge of extinction. Is the human race so wonderful it deserves a future? Does any other other species kill vast numbers of it's own kind? Humans have brought the coming catastrophe on themselves.

But what if we aren't doomed? What if some combination of change and technology will allow us to continue and even thrive as a species? What if we can limit further harm enough that we are not doomed?

The human race may have done and be doing horrid things, but we also do wonderful things, works of art, architecture, music, and literature.

Does that mean we deserve to survive? I don't know, but to not even try is like collectively committing suicide, and I don't get to make that choice for others. Maybe the only choice will be to get off the planet because this one won't support human life, but I am confident that that, too is within our reach.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby pete75 » 7 Aug 2019, 3:39pm

mattheus wrote:
pete75 wrote:As for the environment I think it's already passed the point of no return and the earth ,or mankind at least, is doomed and nothing I do or don't do will make any difference to this.

Piffle.

A few points:
- you've clearly contributed to the mess, how do you feel about that?
- everyone makes a diference. If everyone took some responsibility we'd be in a much better position!
- from my experience of people saying things like you've posted, this is just feeble justification for someone with a very selfish view on the world.

I hope all the local fly-tippers decide that your garden (& garage) are an easy target.

Kind regards,
Matty x


You've also contributed to the mess so your post is more than a little hypocritical.

Mike Sales
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Mike Sales » 7 Aug 2019, 3:40pm

Vorpal wrote:Maybe the only choice will be to get off the planet because this one won't support human life, but I am confident that that, too is within our reach.


It would be quite a logistical challenge to move the billions of us to another, habitable planet.
To feel at home we might like to take earth's flora and fauna too, in Noah's Spaceship.
A bit easier for Elon Musk and family to leave most of us behind.

mattheus
Posts: 566
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 7 Aug 2019, 3:56pm

pete75 wrote:
mattheus wrote:
pete75 wrote:As for the environment I think it's already passed the point of no return and the earth ,or mankind at least, is doomed and nothing I do or don't do will make any difference to this.

Piffle.

A few points:
- you've clearly contributed to the mess, how do you feel about that?
- everyone makes a diference. If everyone took some responsibility we'd be in a much better position!
- from my experience of people saying things like you've posted, this is just feeble justification for someone with a very selfish view on the world.

I hope all the local fly-tippers decide that your garden (& garage) are an easy target.

Kind regards,
Matty x


You've also contributed to the mess so your post is more than a little hypocritical.

'snot.

pete75
Posts: 11408
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby pete75 » 7 Aug 2019, 5:20pm

mattheus wrote:
pete75 wrote:
mattheus wrote:Piffle.

A few points:
- you've clearly contributed to the mess, how do you feel about that?
- everyone makes a diference. If everyone took some responsibility we'd be in a much better position!
- from my experience of people saying things like you've posted, this is just feeble justification for someone with a very selfish view on the world.

I hope all the local fly-tippers decide that your garden (& garage) are an easy target.

Kind regards,
Matty x


You've also contributed to the mess so your post is more than a little hypocritical.

'snot.

So tell me how you haven't used any resources or caused any pollution?

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Oldjohnw » 7 Aug 2019, 6:56pm

The nearest accident and emergency hospital to where I live is just short of 60 miles away. I can easily walk that or take my wife on my crossbar. Right.
John

Cycling and recycling

mattheus
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 7 Aug 2019, 10:52pm

Oldjohnw wrote:The nearest accident and emergency hospital to where I live is just short of 60 miles away. I can easily walk that or take my wife on my crossbar. Right.

I was (fairly) recently hit by an Internal Combustion vehicle; as it turned out, it probably wasnt essential tha I visit A&E, but given the claret everywhere I can understand why the emergency services chose to take me there.

The upshot being that the nice ambulance people took me. I wasn't dependent on maintaining my own vehicle on the driveway. There are other ways.

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Oldjohnw » 8 Aug 2019, 1:36am

Not here there aren't necessarily. As ever, people tell people how to live their lives without knowing the situation.

I have had to get there three times in the last 22 months for various reasons all under my own steam.
John

Cycling and recycling

francovendee
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Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby francovendee » 8 Aug 2019, 7:11am

Vorpal wrote:
pete75 wrote:Between the two of us we have four cars and five motorbikes. Total annual mileage is about 40,000. So what?
As for living without owning a combustion engine what about lawn mowing, tree felling, hedge cutting, strimming weeds etc. I use a device with an engine for all those tasks.

How do you rack up so many miles in one year? I think I came close to 20,000 miles in one year once. I had a 25 mile commute, and also drove about 600 miles once or twice a month to help my dad. I could really only cycle once per week, and sometimes not even that, mostly because of the demands of my job.

For a couple of years after that, I car-pooled with some folks who lived near me, so I only had to drive twice per week, then the company I worked for moved me to another facility & I was able to find housing closer to work.

So what? Well, every little bit helps. If everyone did 20,000 miles per person per year in motor vehicles, we would have a far worse environmental situation than we do, and it would likely be that much harder to tackle.

As for other combustion engines... most of them have electric substitutes. Felling a large tree needs a petrol chain saw, but the other stuff can be done with electrics, unless you have a large lawn. Of course, that's not necessarily ideal. If your power comes from coal plants, for example the combustion engine is probably a better choice, as it's more efficient and less polluting.

I've given up mowing. We have gravel at the front of our house, and the back is growing wild, interspersed with fruit trees, berry bushes, bee & butterfly friendly flowers, and beds for vegetables.


Just heard on the news, bare earth gives of gasses and farmers are urged not to leave fields as bare earth. The deeper you look the answer is less simple.

mattheus
Posts: 566
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 8 Aug 2019, 8:56am

pete75 wrote:
mattheus wrote:
pete75 wrote:
You've also contributed to the mess so your post is more than a little hypocritical.

'snot.

So tell me how you haven't used any resources or caused any pollution?

It would be quite hard for anyone to comment here on your posts without using any resources!

(in fact, even reading your statements about the future of the planet is affecting it. Gosh what a dilemma ... )
Last edited by mattheus on 8 Aug 2019, 9:44am, edited 1 time in total.

Brucey
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Brucey » 8 Aug 2019, 9:41am

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reohn2
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby reohn2 » 8 Aug 2019, 9:50am

Debs wrote:People who feel the need to own a car for their personal use but only use it when really necessary should be respected IMO.

The far bigger picture are the millions of car owners who frequently use their cars for far too many completely daft and unnecessarily journeys, and this seems to equate to the fact that most peoples perceive the car as a right of ownership, and which obtains them a higher standard of living.
Also the costs of car ownership is considerably high to 'own' and then comparatively affordable to 'use' after ownership has been paid for. This is why many people will want to get their monies worth by upping the millage and using their car as much as possible.
So scraping the vehicle duty and raising the tax on fuel would be a far sensible way to go. The more you drive the more you pay, the more your vehicle guzzles fuel the more you pay, the more economical your MPG and less milage you do the less you pay etc.

The argument of non car ownership does have fine environmental merit and is on the higher moral ground IMO, especially as it's aims placed at higher quality of life, rather than standard of living. But it really does depend on individual circumstances such as where one lives and local amenities.
The real nut to crack is the decades old culture of consumeristic car ownership and social engineered society that has deliberately made it rather awkward for far too many peoples not to own a car, or no longer own one, and it's this that really needs to change.

Words of considered wisdom and a reasonable assessment of where we are presently as a nation.
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I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby reohn2 » 8 Aug 2019, 9:58am

horizon wrote:
Debs wrote:
The far bigger picture are the millions of car owners who frequently use their cars for far too many completely daft and unnecessarily journeys,


That comes wih owning a car. The marginal cost and effort of using a car is zero if there is a bit of petrol in the tank - so I'll run down to the shops (in my car) to get that loaf of bread. That's why not owning a car at all is life changing (literally).

The biggest impediment to using a car in some areas nowadays is the loss of one's parking space.

And if along with that there was limited or no car parking at the loaf of bread shop things may change.
I keep linking to Groningen :- https://vimeo.com/76207227 (worth a watch for anyone who hasn't seen it) as an example,where the changes to the city have have transformed it very much for the better.
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I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby reohn2 » 8 Aug 2019, 10:02am

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:As for the environment I think it's already passed the point of no return and the earth ,or mankind at least, is doomed and nothing I do or don't do will make any difference to this.

While I agree with that - we don't know how to order things to change it and the entire social and economic system is based on growth which can't be sustained. There's still a question about how we can contribute to a better local environment for the time we as a species are here. For example better air quality won't save the world, but it will contribute to a healthier population.

+1
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I cycle therefore I am.

francovendee
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby francovendee » 8 Aug 2019, 10:09am

Brucey wrote:
In terms of CO2 output in use an electric car is only about twice as good (if the electricity is generated by fossil fuels) as a vehicle with an IC engine. The CO2 is produced in a different place though. If you are thinking of trading your car in for an electric one, you need to drive it a very long way before the cost of manufacturing the new car is 'paid for'. Some folk say the time for this to happen is longer than the expected life of the new car...


The world is riddled with nosensical things in relation to this; I recently saw a 'Tesla' service van on the road. "Oh, that'll be an electric vehicle then", I thought. Was it heck, it was just another stinky diesel van.... :roll:

cheers


Since we stopped making things that would last and be repairable it's become the easiest option to just buy new. The cost of parts soon outweigh the price of a new item, cars in particular.
Coming from a time when the thing that 'killed' a car was rust. Engines and gearboxes were repaired but the rot in the bodywork couldn't be. Today, a perfectly serviceable car gets dumped because a component that's needed costs a fortune.
If all cars cost two or three times their price then repairing them would make economic sense. It would also cut down on the use of carbon to produce new ones. This will never happen as the car companies have too much clout and we've all gotten used to having the latest new thing.
As you posted ' We're all doomed' :cry: