Living without owning an internal combustion engine

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
mattheus
Posts: 740
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 8 Aug 2019, 4:40pm

pete75 wrote:
Samuel D wrote:
pete75 wrote:[…] and no I don't feel any guilt.

You really shouldn’t boast about that, although a lot of people from your generation do. Thankfully the younger generations, for all their new faults, have a more sensible outlook on energy consumption. Plus they’re poorer and simply can’t afford the great extravagance of their parents. Habits are changing, and I see no reason to give up hope just because some older people think it’s their right to burn a tank of petrol on a whim for pleasure as long as they can afford it. Even if you reject all scientific advice about the consequences of your actions and the need to change them, you won’t live forever.


I don't doubt what man made pollution is doing to the earth I just think it's too late to stop it unless extremely drastic action is taken and that just won't happen.
Governments have known about this for a lot longer than us yet still pay mainly lip service to preventing climate change and don't actually do that much about it. The biggest polluter of the lot, the USA, has pulled out of what international agreements there are to prevent it.
Many countries are actually following policies that will increase climate change for example, the leases Trump is granting for oil and gas exploration on public land may cause more climate change pollution than the EU produces annually and China is planning to build about 500 coal fired power stations over the next ten years. This is the opposite of the drastic action needed to save the world.
The most immediate threat is likely to be water wars along with people trying to migrate from places suffering increasing desertification to those that aren't with all the strife, death and mayhem that will cause. Food shortages will increase as both desertification and sea level rises remove large areas of currently productive farmland further intensifying population movements and the associated tensions.


So if enough people litter in your town, you'd stop using the bins??

This is just excuses - I've heard the same thing from a thousand polluters. Why is your -ve contribution insignificant? What if everyone that thinks like you decided to change DESPITE Trump (and all the other all-powerful being that you're blaming)?
(Those oil-n-gas licences would be pretty worthless if everyone slashed their driving miles - wouldn't they?)



Take a bit of responsibility for YOUR effect on other people. Show some flippin' balls - I dare ya!

pete75
Posts: 11735
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby pete75 » 8 Aug 2019, 5:09pm

mattheus wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Samuel D wrote:You really shouldn’t boast about that, although a lot of people from your generation do. Thankfully the younger generations, for all their new faults, have a more sensible outlook on energy consumption. Plus they’re poorer and simply can’t afford the great extravagance of their parents. Habits are changing, and I see no reason to give up hope just because some older people think it’s their right to burn a tank of petrol on a whim for pleasure as long as they can afford it. Even if you reject all scientific advice about the consequences of your actions and the need to change them, you won’t live forever.


I don't doubt what man made pollution is doing to the earth I just think it's too late to stop it unless extremely drastic action is taken and that just won't happen.
Governments have known about this for a lot longer than us yet still pay mainly lip service to preventing climate change and don't actually do that much about it. The biggest polluter of the lot, the USA, has pulled out of what international agreements there are to prevent it.
Many countries are actually following policies that will increase climate change for example, the leases Trump is granting for oil and gas exploration on public land may cause more climate change pollution than the EU produces annually and China is planning to build about 500 coal fired power stations over the next ten years. This is the opposite of the drastic action needed to save the world.
The most immediate threat is likely to be water wars along with people trying to migrate from places suffering increasing desertification to those that aren't with all the strife, death and mayhem that will cause. Food shortages will increase as both desertification and sea level rises remove large areas of currently productive farmland further intensifying population movements and the associated tensions.


So if enough people litter in your town, you'd stop using the bins??

This is just excuses - I've heard the same thing from a thousand polluters. Why is your -ve contribution insignificant? What if everyone that thinks like you decided to change DESPITE Trump (and all the other all-powerful being that you're blaming)?
(Those oil-n-gas licences would be pretty worthless if everyone slashed their driving miles - wouldn't they?)



Take a bit of responsibility for YOUR effect on other people. Show some flippin' balls - I dare ya!


Ok if you think I'm wrong tell me why what I've described will not come about.
It's already started and if you think it hasn't and won't get worse you're living in cloud cuckoo land . For example Chennai(Madras) a place with a population of over 7 million is having to rely on water shipped in by the train load. Countries with about 25% of the earth's population are facing what is called water stress. Relatively small annual reductions in rainfall, which are increasing because of climate change, cause major difficulties.

Why do you think Trump and the all powerful shouldn't be blamed?

mattheus
Posts: 740
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 9 Aug 2019, 8:13am

pete75 wrote:...

Ok if you think I'm wrong tell me why what I've described will not come about.
It's already started and if you think it hasn't and won't get worse you're living in cloud cuckoo land . For example Chennai(Madras) a place with a population of over 7 million is having to rely on water shipped in by the train load. Countries with about 25% of the earth's population are facing what is called water stress. Relatively small annual reductions in rainfall, which are increasing because of climate change, cause major difficulties.

Why do you think Trump and the all powerful shouldn't be blamed?


Is this some devious distraction tactic?? You're talking about water crisises - a very real thing, of course - as part of your argument defending the flagrant pollution you are creating.
have I got this right??

Vorpal
Moderator
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Vorpal » 9 Aug 2019, 8:16am

pete75 wrote:
Why do you think Trump and the all powerful shouldn't be blamed?

They should. That doesn't mean we can't change in spite of them.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

cc1085
Posts: 41
Joined: 8 Feb 2015, 11:41pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby cc1085 » 13 Aug 2019, 10:37pm

The way we live with petrol diesel coal gas and oil is over. Everyone on this forum should join Extinction Rebellion. THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT.

mattheus
Posts: 740
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 14 Aug 2019, 8:42am

(someone will say that causing offence by shouting in BLOCK CAPITALS is more important. Oh hang on, I've done it now, you can all relax ... )

reohn2
Posts: 35958
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby reohn2 » 14 Aug 2019, 9:07am

cc1085 wrote:The way we live with petrol diesel coal gas and oil is over. Everyone on this forum should join Extinction Rebellion. THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT.

I understand your frustration,but until some valid alternatives and decent legislation is put in place we(society in general)will carry on as we are.
We're are polluting ourselves into extinction and the reaction to it from government and society in general(I'm as bad as the next person TBH)is snail like.

PS,for a measure of just how bad the problem is,if anyone watched Countryfile last Sunay (11Aug 2019),there was a n article about the percentage of plastics in compost sold to farmers to spread on their land,and similarly so in animal feed!
You could actually see it on the land and in the feed.Incredible!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

fatboy
Posts: 3346
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 1:32pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby fatboy » 14 Aug 2019, 9:23am

I've only read some of this so I apologise if I go over old ground. I have access to a car (my wife's) which I hardly use but I've been car free for 7 years. I commute by bike (14 mile round trip) daily but have a Brompton for use on the train. It's been great for me but it helps that I hate driving, have access to good public transport and work near home.

What I find so amazing (probably a bit depressing actually) is the fact that I'm seen as a bit of a crank to not own a car; this usually comes about in time of bad weather "you didn't cycle in this?" and when I point out my lack of choice they all think that I'm a bit weird. I work in Stevenage which has extensive cycle routes and many live and work there will drive and complain about the traffic and parking, fuel prices etc.

I love the choice that I've made but there are times when it limits (if I'm alone with my kids it can restrict what we do) but it's been great for me. The best bit is being able to do the N+1 with a fairly clear conscience!
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly

Grandad
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Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 12:22am
Location: Kent

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Grandad » 14 Aug 2019, 11:13am

I'm seen as a bit of a crank to not own a car; this usually comes about in time of bad weather "you didn't cycle in this?"

I commuted by bike for all of my 43 working years, only buying a car when age 45 and only because mother in law came to live with us after a stroke.

As the office junior the bike was accepted, later I got similar comments but tinged with respect for my racing activities - 100 mile and 12 hour time trials impressed them. My last 17 years were at a residential management training centre and I was able to ride in lycra - useful for starting training rides without having to first go home to change. By then the comments were "you must be fit - I should be doing something like that"

I must admit to keeping the car after mother in law died :(

Stradageek
Posts: 612
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Stradageek » 14 Aug 2019, 12:57pm

Legislation is the only solution - there just aren't enough eco-warriors or potential converts out there.

Governments wont legislate because it would be unpopular and they wouldn't get re-elected and it would therefore disrupt the politicians path to an overpaid executive directorship or five when the leave parliament.

We therefore await a revolution or a fuel deprived apocalypse.

Caught me in a cynical moment, wont stop me doing my bit - our ratio of cycling to driving miles is closing in on 1:1, the cars days are numbered!

Debs
Posts: 484
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Debs » 14 Aug 2019, 1:18pm

fatboy wrote:I have access to a car (my wife's) which I hardly use but I've been car free for 7 years...


So in other words - you are not car free! :wink:

I used to work with quite a few guys who would make extensive bragging rights about not owning a car and using their bike 100%, but i knew their spouse had the car for practical necessities and weekly shop.
It makes a far more viable proposition to give up car ownership if one still has access to a very convenient car within the household...

Although don't get me wrong, you deserve to be commended for not owning a car in addition to your good lady wife :D
Last edited by Debs on 14 Aug 2019, 3:42pm, edited 1 time in total.

NetworkMan
Posts: 704
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 11:13am
Location: South Devon

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby NetworkMan » 14 Aug 2019, 3:04pm

Stradageek wrote:Legislation is the only solution - there just aren't enough eco-warriors or potential converts out there.

Governments wont legislate because it would be unpopular and they wouldn't get re-elected and it would therefore disrupt the politicians path to an overpaid executive directorship or five when the leave parliament.

We therefore await a revolution or a fuel deprived apocalypse.

Caught me in a cynical moment, wont stop me doing my bit - our ratio of cycling to driving miles is closing in on 1:1, the cars days are numbered!

Exactly.
It's now fourteen years since my wife and I gave up flying and cut car use to around 2000 miles per year. We were already vegetarian and almost vegan. We decided we wouldn't wear hairier shirts until there was some evidence of significant change elsewhere - we are still waiting and personally I believe we are all doomed! We gave up trying to convert friends and family - at best you are ignored and at worst you just get abuse.

Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Oldjohnw » 14 Aug 2019, 3:13pm

Similar. Haven't flown on holiday for 23 years. Last flight got business a year before I retired in 2011. Car mileage about 5k , mainly because we live in the country, 60 miles from a hospital and some work 55 miles away. No public transport. E bike for shopping, holidays etc, leisure.

Family? Most either dead against/ no-one will stop me seeing the world or they say "yes but I can't make a difference,'

Almost cut out meat.
John

Cycling and recycling

Vorpal
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Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Vorpal » 14 Aug 2019, 3:22pm

The younger folks seem to have a handle on the need to make changes. At least the teens and recent university graduates I've talked to seem to.

Also, some countries seem to be doing a bit better. Several European countries have clear plans to be carbon neutral by 2030, including ambitious plans to eliminate new diesel and petrol cars, reduce personal car usage, introduce carbon capture, introduce environment zones where any vehicles entering must meet ambitious emissions targets, large investments in public transport to reduce emissions and eliminate diesel and petrol, etc.

Others have less ambitious plans, and are currently failing to meet even those.

But the more apparent the need for change becomes, the easier it will be, everywhere, to get the political initiative to do something.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

NetworkMan
Posts: 704
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 11:13am
Location: South Devon

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby NetworkMan » 14 Aug 2019, 3:45pm

Yes, loads of plans - trouble is nothing significant has actually happened! Also, most of what you are describing can (if it's even possible) be done without an impact on lifestyle which suits politicians. Personally I doubt that this will be solved without a significant change in lifestyle and for reasons given above I don't see that happening. Don't know about the young ones - aren't the stag parties in Prague still popular?