Living without owning an internal combustion engine

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Oldjohnw
Posts: 1815
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Aug 2019, 3:07pm

Pretty well everything has some environmental pact (what someone else does is always worse than my activities, it seems).

Even a good old pushbike without a motor costs something in its manufacture: making the steel (much more so if carbon), bits of plastic and nylon, tyres, oil, possibly leather. Steel is pretty well endlessly recyclable, carbon with supreme difficulty.

Most of us are learning after a lifetime of ignorance.
John

Cycling and recycling

Grandad
Posts: 1042
Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 12:22am
Location: Kent

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Grandad » 15 Aug 2019, 3:15pm

You are living with them if you buy any imported goods.


Is "living with" the same as "making use of"?

Good thing my non-computer using wife will not see this thread :D

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2914
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby PDQ Mobile » 15 Aug 2019, 3:27pm

Grandad wrote:
You are living with them if you buy any imported goods.


Is "living with" the same as "making use of"?

Good thing my non-computer using wife will not see this thread :D

We could just say "dependant upon"! :shock:

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2824
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Bmblbzzz » 15 Aug 2019, 3:32pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Pretty well everything has some environmental pact (what someone else does is always worse than my activities, it seems).

Even a good old pushbike without a motor costs something in its manufacture: making the steel (much more so if carbon), bits of plastic and nylon, tyres, oil, possibly leather. Steel is pretty well endlessly recyclable, carbon with supreme difficulty.

Most of us are learning after a lifetime of ignorance.

ISTR seeing figures which showed the impact of a carbon frame to be not much more than that of a steel one, with aluminium being far worse than either, presumably due to the large amounts of energy needed to smelt aluminium from ore. Only vague recollection though.

mattheus
Posts: 730
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 15 Aug 2019, 4:13pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Pretty well everything has some environmental pact (what someone else does is always worse than my activities, it seems).

Even a good old pushbike without a motor costs something in its manufacture: making the steel (much more so if carbon), bits of plastic and nylon, tyres, oil, possibly leather. Steel is pretty well endlessly recyclable, carbon with supreme difficulty.

Most of us are learning after a lifetime of ignorance.

ISTR seeing figures which showed the impact of a carbon frame to be not much more than that of a steel one, with aluminium being far worse than either, presumably due to the large amounts of energy needed to smelt aluminium from ore. Only vague recollection though.

Depends what you view as "impact"; there is carbon footprint, and then there is the depletion of resources, and the disposal of waste.

So for example, making batteries can have the side-effect of using up precious Lithium (I think there are rarer metals used in batteries, but I forget which right now!), so one might argue this is "Bad".
Also, metal frames can be recycled, but carbon fibre is very nearly impossible to recycle.

Then there are the complexities of things like mono-cultures, the horrible scarring that quarrying/mining creates, the damage to certain cultures where things are grown/extracted etc etc.


Carbon footprint is a big deal, but there are other factors.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1815
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Aug 2019, 4:21pm

My point really is that it's always easy to point at everyone else. But we all deplete resources and contribute to pollution at some point.
John

Cycling and recycling

paddler
Posts: 125
Joined: 8 Oct 2017, 9:13am

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby paddler » 15 Aug 2019, 5:21pm

Apparently carbon fibre is being recycled - seems there is a lot of attention being given to this now due to the extensive use of it already. Just read that quite bit of it that was used in airliners is reaching the end of it's life so will need to be either recycled or disposed of.

Dave

mattheus
Posts: 730
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 15 Aug 2019, 7:00pm

paddler wrote:Apparently carbon fibre is being recycled - seems there is a lot of attention being given to this now due to the extensive use of it already. Just read that quite bit of it that was used in airliners is reaching the end of it's life so will need to be either recycled or disposed of.

Dave

That "apparently" is suspicious! ;) You're not in PR are you??

Tiny amounts are. Unless you have any good examples?

(The only one I know of is Airbus - who may produce more of the stuff than any company on earth - have made some partition curtains in their factories from old CF. An applaud-able effort, but just a drop in the ocean, sadly.

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2824
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Bmblbzzz » 15 Aug 2019, 7:17pm

http://www.jeccomposites.com/directory/ ... -fibre-ltd
http://www.elgcf.com/about/what-we-do
http://terratechmedia.com/boomtime/
etc

The problem with recycling carbon fibre is that, AIUI, the recycled product is low value compared to new material and --- in terms of bikes and other 'small' consumer products, how many broken frames actually get disposed of responsibly? The answer is equally low for metal frames, I expect. Probably a far greater percentage of used c.f. is recycled from aerospace applications than bikes. Kind of like Oldjohnw said...

paddler
Posts: 125
Joined: 8 Oct 2017, 9:13am

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby paddler » 15 Aug 2019, 9:24pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:http://www.jeccomposites.com/directory/recycled-carbon-fibre-ltd
http://www.elgcf.com/about/what-we-do
http://terratechmedia.com/boomtime/
etc

The problem with recycling carbon fibre is that, AIUI, the recycled product is low value compared to new material and --- in terms of bikes and other 'small' consumer products, how many broken frames actually get disposed of responsibly? The answer is equally low for metal frames, I expect. Probably a far greater percentage of used c.f. is recycled from aerospace applications than bikes. Kind of like Oldjohnw said...


I was really just making the point that it is at a stage further forward than "almost impossible to recycle", but yes, I realise bike frames won't necessarily get recycled until it is widely available.

The TerraTechMedia page was the one I was referring to. There is obviously going to be huge amounts of waste carbon fibre around pretty soon, so a good quick way of reusing it will have to be developed.
The article says recycled is worth around half that of virgin - and takes a tenth of the energy to produce.

Regarding steel frames there must be thousands that could be kept going, just as long as they can be rescued in time. Things are too easy to throw away!

mattheus
Posts: 730
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby mattheus » 15 Aug 2019, 9:40pm

paddler wrote: Regarding steel frames there must be thousands that could be kept going, just as long as they can be rescued in time. Things are too easy to throw away!

Yup - whereas cf frames will definitely degrade over time/mileage. (even if they are not catastrophically crashed).

Oldjohnw wrote: Steel is pretty well endlessly recyclable, carbon with supreme difficulty.

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2824
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Bmblbzzz » 16 Aug 2019, 4:01pm

Not just steel is easy to recycle but aluminium and I'd presume titanium too. And magnesium, if anyone has an old Kirk Precision...

bagpussctc
Posts: 149
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 6:45pm

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby bagpussctc » 16 Aug 2019, 4:55pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Not just steel is easy to recycle but aluminium and I'd presume titanium too. And magnesium, if anyone has an old Kirk Precision...


Please keep me out of this. I have one 8)

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2824
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Bmblbzzz » 16 Aug 2019, 6:13pm

Lucky you!

User avatar
Morzedec
Posts: 66
Joined: 11 Jul 2016, 6:03pm
Location: Cornwall/Deux-Sevres

Re: Living without owning an internal combustion engine

Postby Morzedec » 19 Aug 2019, 10:20am

Morning all; back in the UK again (yesterday's Roscoff to Plymouth ferry crossing) for a week.

Most might know that I'm now living pretty much 'off-grid' in France: no car, telephone, television, washing machine, microwave, nor much else either. 12km each way to the nearest shop keeps my legs in trim, and the 600km each way back to the UK gives my backside a proper workout (camping each night, of course).

Apple, peach, cherry and pear trees in the garden, and three large veggie beds, keep me fed, and I make and swap marmalade and jams with my neighbour (only got one!) for any help that I might need.

I'm fortunate to have the use of a computer here in the UK, if only to see if I won the Lottery when last here. Nope.

A downside? perhaps the continuing absence of a rich widow, to pay for the wine?

Happy days.
Image Attachments
Car boot shopping trip.JPG