531colin wrote:OK thanks for that, R2 and Samuel
Samuel confirms (more or less) that moving the saddle back un-loads quads (or loads glutes/hamstrings, which must be the same thing)
R2 is going better having moved cleats....that damned Steve Hogg has a nasty habit of being right!
I'm still fascinated that such small changes in position make such a big difference to how we use various muscle groups.
Maybe someday I'll find confirmation (or rebuttal) of moving the cleats back loading your quads....
My typical stats are-
Inseam - 840 - 845 mm
Shoe Stack with insole - typ 15 - 17 mm
Saddle to top pedal face - typ 915 mm
Saddle BB setback - typ 55 - 60 mm
Pretty standard legs.
In 531colins book I would be regarded as a toe dipper.
But I have what I regard as a natural ankle motion, which means 12 Oclock the ankle is acute (sole to shin) mid 9 Oclock level or 90 degrees and 6 Oclock obtuse, toe dipper
The acute ankle will always be less than the obtuse from 90 degrees, this is natural for your foot.
If you look at pro riders they mainly fall into two camps, noticeable foot action or hard to notice foot action (Natural Ankling that's the action not me
I.M.O. its a mistake to be toe dipping at top of stroke - calf muscles are tight or short, or dropping heels at bottom - unless you are doing limbering up exercises like froomey on the turbo.
If your saddle is correct for and aft - you should be able to cycle in a comfortable high gear on the flat, (which you could maintain for several miles but not for an hour) Warm up first 30 minutes or so, point your toes consciously and you should feel sensations above the knee (simulates saddle too low).
Now relax for a minute to normal foot motion, now drop your heels, this will stretch the hams (simulates saddle too high), you will feel this.
Both are subtle feelings, pulling in the calves on dropping the heels means lack of subtle calf muscles, do stretches daily.
When I say point your toes drop your heels - do this for the whole stroke, 30 seconds should be enough.
Make no attempt to ankle at all.
Ankling is sub counsious, like when walking / running.
In training when everything is OK - on the flat in an high gear my quads and hams will hurt the same but nothing else, then I know everything is correct.
Any - hot foot - cold feet tight shoes will ruin your foot action and the knees normally complain first.
Ball off foot over the pedal spindle with make you claw your toes, leave that for track riders.
Steve hogg gets it right as said.
531colin I would regard as his feet are too flat at bottom of stroke from his pics bike set up.
But if he has been comfortable for a long time then that's all right, I do wonder if his pic on bike setup was a static one
If so do a vid on a turbo and select all cadence and even standing / high gears too, then take stills, it might surprise you...
On latest sore quads, his bike hasent changed so must be a weakening through old age, I will be there soon for sure