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Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 10:29pm
by Brucey
Anyone even know what a 'knee scooter' is? Would you know what to do if it was recommended that you 'ask your jobber'...?

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Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 10:36pm
by Brucey
it is for uberlandfarhten, apparently. (stop sniggering at the back).

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Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 10:38pm
by Brucey
time for another Art Nouveau one

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Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 11:35pm
by Brucey
from 1986. For a few years it was quite the thing to have the front half of your bike a different colour than the rear half. It always looked a bit like a bad cut and shut job to me. Here we see Fuji joined at the hip with SunTour, back when SunTour were still duking it out with shimano.

Carol Addy was a US national team rider, and (I think) is today working in the medical profession.

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Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 12:58am
by kylecycler
Brucey wrote:"does my bum look big in this?"
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Laurin & Klement became Skoda, hence Skoda's ongoing involvement in the TdF:

https://www.skoda-auto.com/news/news-de ... ction-2019

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 12:59am
by kylecycler
Brucey wrote:it is for uberlandfarhten, apparently. (stop sniggering at the back).

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Wanderer was one of the four companies which formed the 'Auto Union' - DKW, Wanderer, Horsch and Audi.

The four circles of the current Audi logo represent these four companies which formed Auto Union, Audi being the only one of the four to survive World War II.

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 8:11am
by RickH
Brucey wrote:Anyone even know what a 'knee scooter' is? Would you know what to do if it was recommended that you 'ask your jobber'...?

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Putting "knee scooter" into Google comes up with this as the first hit

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A scooter with a raised platform to rest your knee on instead of standing.more details of this example if you want to hire one (or are simply curious) here.

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 3:46pm
by Brucey
kylecycler wrote:Wanderer was one of the four companies which formed the 'Auto Union' - DKW, Wanderer, Horsch and Audi.

The four circles of the current Audi logo represent these four companies which formed Auto Union, Audi being the only one of the four to survive World War II.


Sort of; DKW survived the war, set up again in west Germany and (along with the rest of Auto Union) became part of the Volkswagen group. DKW cars were being made in Germany into the 1960s and later than this built under licence in other countries.

The original pre-war DKW factory ended up in East Germany, not under Volkswagen control, and carried on making motorcycles, now branded as MZ.

cheers

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 4:43pm
by steelframe
Brucey wrote:it is for uberlandfarhten, apparently. (stop sniggering at the back).

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In fact the advertisment says the opposite: The bike is NOT intended for "Überlandfahrten" but for city traffic. It says:

"the bike is a reliable every-day helper. A facilitator for enjoyable free time hours." (upper right)
"it costs 238 Reichsmark. Add 6 Reichsmark to get a suspension fork." (upper middle)

"The Wanderer bike with Saxonette was created for those that need a vehicle that is faster and more comfortable than a bicycle but are on the other hand not able to make friends with a motor bike. The new bike is therefor no bike for interurban rides ("Überlandfahrten") but a vehicle for every day needs, reliable and cheap to keep up."

So this bike had basically the same value propsition that electric bikes have in our days. The less comfortable aspect is that I assume that this thing dates from a time when a lot of people were too poor to afford a motorbike, let alone a car. So this was an upgrade from a bicycle. Obviously the advertisment could not say "poor man's motorbike"...

The Saxonette was available in Germany until about the mid-80ies of last century, or - better said - Sachs reintroduced in some time in the 80ies where the target group were elderly people. The 80ies version had a two-stroke engine with (if I remember right) 0,7 Horsepower. It had to be insured but was limited in speed and you would not need to wear a helmet. Probably only very few were sold - I saw them sometimes during those years but only very occassionally and only in small towns or villages where elderly people went to their garden with it or to the cementary (not with the intention to stay there obviously :wink: ).

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 4:59pm
by steelframe
Brucey wrote:
kylecycler wrote:Wanderer was one of the four companies which formed the 'Auto Union' - DKW, Wanderer, Horsch and Audi.

The four circles of the current Audi logo represent these four companies which formed Auto Union, Audi being the only one of the four to survive World War II.


Sort of; DKW survived the war, set up again in west Germany and (along with the rest of Auto Union) became part of the Volkswagen group. DKW cars were being made in Germany into the 1960s and later than this built under licence in other countries.

The original pre-war DKW factory ended up in East Germany, not under Volkswagen control, and carried on making motorcycles, now branded as MZ.

cheers


Almost - the AutoUnion was created already back in 1932. Before world war 2 it was Germans second biggest car maker (after Opel). Opel had about 41% market share, while Auto Union had about 22%. Of the Auto Union Brands Audi had by far the smallest market share with 0,1% of the German car market. DKW had 17,9%, Wanderer 4,4% and Horch 1% (with Horch, being a luxury brand, owning 50% of the market for luxury cars in Germany at that time).
After world war 2 Auto Union's headquarters and almost all the factories were in the soviet zone which then became the socialist German Democratic Republic (in Zwickau and Chemnitz). The brand was discontinued by the GDR after a while but many of the vehicles from the GDR were the results from the follow-ups of those Auto Union factories: IFA, Trabant, Wartburg and MZ (the latter being motorbikes). In Western Germany a spare-parts business for Auto Union was created as there many of the old cars were still in service. Therefor a new Auto Union was created in Ingolstadt (today the headquarter of Audi) which also started to produce cars. So for a short while you had similarly named brands in both parts of Germany, including Audi and DKW. Auto Union (west) got bought by Mercedes and only later ended up with Volkswagen (I think late 60es or early 70ies) and decades later Audi, being the brand survivor, becoming a premium brand (starting only in the late 80ies). A fascinating piece and example of German history pre and post war in terms of economics.

Trivia:
- Audi is latin and has exactly the same meaning than the German word Horch, which was another brand of Auto Union
- DKW means Dampf Kraft Wagen (steam powered car) - no wonder they ditched the brand...
For those of you who can read German: German Wikipedia has a bit about the brand: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DKW#Geschichte
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Union

Wanderer bikes are again available today, the brand got revitalized as part of a retro trend towards old brands: https://www.wanderer.eu/ It has however absolutely nothing to do with it's ancestor apart from the name.

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 5:15pm
by Brucey
thanks for the accurate translation of the wanderer ad (and apologies for my schoolboy humour...). I agree a comparison with e-bikes is interesting. In the UK we had motorised bicycles of various kinds too, often with a small two-stroke engine buried in the rear wheel, so that a standard bicycle could be converted with a new wheel, or a complete machine (with a heavy duty frame etc) could be had. If the engine was small/feeble enough then the machine was less hassle to own than a motorcycle. The 'cyclemaster' (actually based on a DKW design I think) was popular;

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and there were plenty of alternatives too, eg using tyre drive (a bit like a solex)

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The load carrying capacity of the bike was usually increased by the stronger wheel, which made carrying a pillion passenger a possibility in some cases

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I find it interesting that a similar approach to the cyclemaster has not yet been commonly seen with e-bikes/e-bike conversions, i.e. with the whole kit (including the batteries) contained within the wheel structure.

cheers

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 5:39pm
by rjb
RickH wrote:
Brucey wrote:Anyone even know what a 'knee scooter' is? Would you know what to do if it was recommended that you 'ask your jobber'...?

Image
A scooter with a raised platform to rest your knee on instead of standing.more details of this example if you want to hire one (or are simply curious) here.


Thats a coincidence, i passed a gentleman with his leg in plaster a couple of days ago using something almost identical :shock:
Perhaps it should have said "ask your doctor"

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 9:07pm
by steelframe
Brucey wrote:I find it interesting that a similar approach to the cyclemaster has not yet been commonly seen with e-bikes/e-bike conversions, i.e. with the whole kit (including the batteries) contained within the wheel structure.


The Kopenhagen Wheel does this (though I'd say it has been overtaken by more recent technological and market developments) and the Zehus does that as well (but is not available as a retrofit kit):
https://www.superpedestrian.com/en/copenhagenwheel
http://www.zehus.it/

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 22 Sep 2019, 8:34am
by Oldjohnw
steelframe wrote:
Brucey wrote:I find it interesting that a similar approach to the cyclemaster has not yet been commonly seen with e-bikes/e-bike conversions, i.e. with the whole kit (including the batteries) contained within the wheel structure.


The Kopenhagen Wheel does this (though I'd say it has been overtaken by more recent technological and market developments) and the Zehus does that as well (but is not available as a retrofit kit):
https://www.superpedestrian.com/en/copenhagenwheel
http://www.zehus.it/


I find the Copenhagen wheel ugly (beauty in the eye of the beholder) and you can't remove the battery for charging.

Re: Vintage Bicycle Advertisements; good, bad. ugly...

Posted: 22 Sep 2019, 8:40am
by Brucey
Oldjohnw wrote:
…. the Copenhagen wheel ……... you can't remove the battery for charging.


I had assumed that was a reason for it not being a popular scheme. I'd also note that the energy density of batteries is quite a bit worse than that of petrol, so more space would be needed for them anyway.

But having said that, could the batteries not be plugged into the side of the stationary part of a wheel motor, much as they are attached to power tools?

cheers