Where is this?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Paulatic
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Re: Where is this?

Postby Paulatic » 13 Aug 2019, 7:32pm

Take a look at the number 17 to Swansea
https://www.flickr.com/photos/richardst ... 8604207996
United- Welsh
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/

philsknees
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Re: Where is this?

Postby philsknees » 14 Aug 2019, 1:40pm

Thanks for that Paulatic. As a result I've spent hours going round in circles going over the complexities of the formation of United Welsh Services Ltd, which has at least confirmed my opinion that I'll never, ever, become a bus-spotter/enthusiast!
However, it has also convinced me that there is little chance of a United bus stop sign existing in North or South Wales in the 1930's (the bus you referred me to was built in 1961). The company only adopted "United" into its name in 1939 when it was evolving from a number of smaller concerns already operating in South Wales and it seem's highly unlikely that bus liveries and bus stop signs could have been changed within the time frame imposed for the photo as given by the OP. On that basis and the fact that the company operated its local bus services within South Wales and over the border to Gloucester/Chepstow, I'll stick with my earlier post's comments relating to the possible Lloc location as I've been unable to uncover evidence of United bus services operating in North Wales at that time. I've no doubt someone will be along shortly :) .
The exercise has proved most therapeutic though and despite the horrible weather I'm encouraged to head off for a long, wet ride to clear that d**n photo from my mind......

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Mick F
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Re: Where is this?

Postby Mick F » 14 Aug 2019, 1:56pm

I found this. See the stones? They seem similar.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58961608@N04/10935266194
Scroll down to the comments. There's a Macky D there now.
Mick F. Cornwall

geocycle
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Re: Where is this?

Postby geocycle » 14 Aug 2019, 2:27pm

philsknees wrote:Thanks for that Paulatic. As a result I've spent hours going round in circles going over the complexities of the formation of United Welsh Services Ltd, which has at least confirmed my opinion that I'll never, ever, become a bus-spotter/enthusiast!
However, it has also convinced me that there is little chance of a United bus stop sign existing in North or South Wales in the 1930's (the bus you referred me to was built in 1961). The company only adopted "United" into its name in 1939 when it was evolving from a number of smaller concerns already operating in South Wales and it seem's highly unlikely that bus liveries and bus stop signs could have been changed within the time frame imposed for the photo as given by the OP. On that basis and the fact that the company operated its local bus services within South Wales and over the border to Gloucester/Chepstow, I'll stick with my earlier post's comments relating to the possible Lloc location as I've been unable to uncover evidence of United bus services operating in North Wales at that time. I've no doubt someone will be along shortly :) .
The exercise has proved most therapeutic though and despite the horrible weather I'm encouraged to head off for a long, wet ride to clear that d**n photo from my mind......


Fantastic post, this is what the forum is all about!

geocycle
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Re: Where is this?

Postby geocycle » 14 Aug 2019, 2:35pm

Mick F wrote:I found this. See the stones? They seem similar.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58961608@N04/10935266194
Scroll down to the comments. There's a Macky D there now.


Yes I think you have it Mick. If you take a look at the rocks by the side of the bin in front of the Macdonalds on the google street view link provided on the flickr link you'll find limestone blocks! https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@53.27351 ... 312!8i6656


Also the area around Holywell has Carboniferous Limestone according to BGS so not classic Dales karst but feasible.

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Chris Jeggo
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Location: Woking

Re: Where is this?

Postby Chris Jeggo » 14 Aug 2019, 4:10pm

In the original photo you can see an intervening low ridge partly obscuring the hill-top trees towards the right. Looking at the 1:25000 OS map and in particular at the contours, this could only happen looking at this hill:
singing_kettle_view_SE_720p.jpg

- Streetview, looking south-east from the Lloc Singing Kettle site. The original photo shows the sign, which would be hanging out towards the main road, and the nearest fence looks like the fence on the far side of the road, so that is consistent, and I think the line of the road before the dual carriageway was built is still apparent in the OS map as the dotted parish boundary. However, I do not think this is the location, because the shape of the skyline above the trees is wrong, and also because the shadows would have the sun to the north.

geocycle
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Re: Where is this?

Postby geocycle » 14 Aug 2019, 4:32pm

OK another possible lead....

http://www.wingedwheels.info/PEAK.pdf

pwa
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Re: Where is this?

Postby pwa » 14 Aug 2019, 4:45pm

Chris Jeggo wrote:In the original photo you can see an intervening low ridge partly obscuring the hill-top trees towards the right. Looking at the 1:25000 OS map and in particular at the contours, this could only happen looking at this hill:
singing_kettle_view_SE_720p.jpg
- Streetview, looking south-east from the Lloc Singing Kettle site. The original photo shows the sign, which would be hanging out towards the main road, and the nearest fence looks like the fence on the far side of the road, so that is consistent, and I think the line of the road before the dual carriageway was built is still apparent in the OS map as the dotted parish boundary. However, I do not think this is the location, because the shape of the skyline above the trees is wrong, and also because the shadows would have the sun to the north.

Look at the original photo and you will see that the shadows of the people are behind them. So the hills behind are likely to be roughly to the north. If we try to translate that to Lloc the extensive landscaping and tree planting of the A55 dual carriageway junction gets in the way. But if we step to one side on Streetview and look to the north (roughly) there are trees on top of low hills. They are more distant looking than ideal for an easy match, but could that be the wide angle nature of Streetview?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2729476 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Good game this.

bagpussctc
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Re: Where is this?

Postby bagpussctc » 14 Aug 2019, 5:43pm

Trawling through The Cycling gazette from 1930 {March till December} nothing yet . A good, very wet day project this :wink:

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Chris Jeggo
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Location: Woking

Re: Where is this?

Postby Chris Jeggo » 14 Aug 2019, 6:15pm

pwa wrote: ... But if we step to one side on Streetview and look to the north (roughly) there are trees on top of low hills. They are more distant looking than ideal for an easy match, but could that be the wide angle nature of Streetview?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2729476 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Good game this.


Yes, good game! However, your quoted Streetview is not looking roughly north; the right-hand hill of your two is the one in my screenshot (Coed y ffrith on the map), and its horizon is convex, whereas the horizon in the original photo is slightly concave. The original photo does not fit the Lloc topography.

Another thing: I have just realised that shadows in the flickr photo of the Lloc Singing Kettle prove that it was on the north side of the road, which I had previously assumed because of the position of the commemorative plaque referred to, and therefore facing south(ish).

bagpussctc: How many wet days are you expecting? I hope you are paying more attention to the NE than to N Wales.

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Chris Jeggo
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Location: Woking

Re: Where is this?

Postby Chris Jeggo » 14 Aug 2019, 6:41pm

It's still raining. I would have been doing something else this afternoon otherwise.

foxyrider: Have you asked Teesside CTC?

Best wishes.

Bsteel
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Re: Where is this?

Postby Bsteel » 14 Aug 2019, 7:03pm

There is mention of a Singing kettle in Matlock Bath which was a CTC stopping point but it's another in the centre of the town. As far as I can tell it is the building which is now a Chinese restaurant.

http://www.wingedwheels.info/PEAK.pdf
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.11978 ... 312!8i6656

geocycle
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Re: Where is this?

Postby geocycle » 14 Aug 2019, 8:03pm

Bsteel wrote:There is mention of a Singing kettle in Matlock Bath which was a CTC stopping point but it's another in the centre of the town. As far as I can tell it is the building which is now a Chinese restaurant.

http://www.wingedwheels.info/PEAK.pdf
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.11978 ... 312!8i6656


Yes I wondered about that one. The geology fits but I can’t see how its location would. There’s also one in Barton on Humber on the chalk but the pics I’ve seen look like a 1970s building....

Bsteel
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Re: Where is this?

Postby Bsteel » 14 Aug 2019, 8:52pm

geocycle wrote:Yes I wondered about that one. The geology fits but I can’t see how its location would. There’s also one in Barton on Humber on the chalk but the pics I’ve seen look like a 1970s building....


At this rate we'll be generating a decent list of Singing Kettles past and present. It's certainly a fun challenge posed by foxyrider.

bagpussctc
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Re: Where is this?

Postby bagpussctc » 14 Aug 2019, 9:05pm

I have even got a friend involved .CTC all has riding life .He is 78 and has a lot of old CTC mags etc.

I have been searching around the Moulton area in Yorkshire ,after looking a old cycling maps and routes from Middlesbrough. :?

Yes looking at the North East only . Going to pour down again on Friday ,so time to get the kettle on :lol:
.Off out on the bike most of Thursday no rain forecast here. :D