e-scooter commuter community

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
reapusmaximus
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e-scooter commuter community

Postby reapusmaximus » 27 Jan 2020, 3:22pm

Hi all - just wondering how many people are commuting via e-scooters these days as I heard the numbers are increasing but am not aware of any real numbers published recently (please link to any relevant publications if you know of such like)
Also what experiences are people having, are any of you also using a regular bike for commuting or recreation?
I tried cycling my 7km commute during the summer and found it sucked; terrible roads, absence of cycle lanes and generally too many psychotic road users. While by far the fastest and healthiest option, cycling to work just doesn't work for me - I much prefer using the bike for recreational trips and off-roading. So I had a go with a cheapish e-scooter which I've been using for the last few months. While I'm riding mostly on the footpaths, I don't go faster than I would if jogging (about 18-20kph) unless I have a good stretch of smooth terrain and clear visiblity of all other traffic. So I consider myself part of that niche that most people generally accept is where e-scooter use is OK. I often pass local police who give me little more than a glance so I can tell they are not very concerned by my activity. My journey takes about the same time as when I drove the car, but I arrive much fresher having avoided the grind of traffic and roadworks etc. I have experienced a few aggressive moves from car drivers, revving engines while I walk past them at junctions and a few people shouting out the window at me when they drive past etc, but nothing to really cause concern. Has anyone encountered anything more sinister yet?
Does anyone know about any specific e-scooter community groups? I sense there is increasing pressure toward reviewing the legality and possible ways to regulate e-scooters that might lead to more formal acceptance of them in certain circumstances so I am keen to keep up to date on developments in that respect. I am not sure how much support there might be for my niche in the general cycling community, so I am happy to hear opinions from regular cyclists on how this all may or may not affect them?

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Ricercar
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Ricercar » 27 Jan 2020, 6:05pm

I don't have a real reply, but just want to say that your message is highly appreciated. Things also I would like to see people writing about. Thanks again. :-)

hemo
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby hemo » 28 Jan 2020, 12:04am

I suspect sometime in the future ( < 5 years possibly) they may be the norm and legal, but suspect their use & the user might well be required to take out third party insurance, wear a helmet and vehicle speed be limited to 12mph or so and no pavement use. If they have to be used solely on the road then some type of registration may be required.
The Met have on one or more occasion cracked down on their use due to at least two user deaths on the road.
Currently as it stands their use on pavements and mixing with pedestrians isn't very safe with 20mph speeds they can reach, regulation will have to take place as it does in France.

Tangled Metal
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Jan 2020, 8:42am

There's a guy round here who rides what looks like a wide, gokart wheel with a board front and rear to stand on. He rides down a steep hill in traffic then takes a 90 degrees plus bend right at the bottom. He's doing 20mph or more. Originally without helmet and wearing jeans and tshirt for protection. However I didn't see him for a month or so. When I did see gin again he was wearing helmet, elbow guards, knee guards, and a long, leather coat.

Do you think he had an accident hence the break?

Anyway, he's ridden it through autumn and into winter. It has leds along three front and rear edges, white to front and red to rear. So at least there's some attempt at safety in the design.

If you think I'm taking a negative attitude towards this guy's choice of personal transportation you're right. My negativity started about 12 years ago with a guy on a petrol powered scooter who rode wherever he liked. Later a no doubt safe and responsible rider of an e scooter used to ride on a mixed use path at what appeared to be above the speed allowed for ebikes.

Personally I think if they get legalised then an equivalent top speed of ebikes should be applied by the same limiter. I think a change in legislation to include them in legislation applying to ebikes and even HC rules that have regulation backing(ie. Legal must do's).

I also think until then retailers need to make it very clear how legal their use is right now. I think a lot are being sold for effectively toy use without it being clear as to legal use. It's still the user's responsibility but there's very little in stores. Halfords have a few little signs underneath the boxes of scooters, hoverboards, etc. With three shelves overflowing some are covered. The ones I actively looked at were a bit vague or unclear. Imho a company that size should have made it clearer, even perhaps quoting legislations for people to look up if so inclined.

If this sounds negative I will summarise. I don't like illegal use of any mode of transport preferring people to follow relevant laws, regulations and rules. I think they should be regulated along the lines of ebikes with limited power and speed. I think they would be a good, potential mode of transport if used safely. I believe that should be worked out before mass use. By that I mean how do they fit into existing highway use, visibility by others, etc. Above all I think limited motors like required on unregistered ebikes. I think there should be no more need of third party insurance, safety equipment, or registration/ licensing than for ebikes. Legalised like that I believe they become a useful addition to urban transportation.

I think that last paragraph is reasonable but I do have my issues with observed misuse over the last few years by individuals.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Jan 2020, 9:01am

These things are not even BSOs, the rider does not pedal
They are a curse where I live, abandoned on pavements and cycleways, I often hop off my cycle to move them put of the way
Unfortunately they are heavy and sturdy

Someone stronger than I heaved a couple over a shoulder-high fence into the bushes, Plus One!
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mjr
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby mjr » 28 Jan 2020, 9:19am

I think the class 3 mobility scooter definition should be liberalised to 10 mph with brakes, lights and horn, allowed into cycle lanes and end the registration red tape. Then some of these e scooters would meet that definition. Anything faster than 10 mph should have pedals and meet the e bike requirements, or become an e motorbike, or be recycled on capture.
Last edited by mjr on 28 Jan 2020, 11:19am, edited 1 time in total.
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mercalia
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby mercalia » 28 Jan 2020, 10:48am

I was at my local Lidls and there was this guy with one and his young kid. It seems he takes his kid in front of his legs and had attached some bars for him to hold onto. The guy didnt seem moronic but thats what I thought and I hope a cop would put a stop to him ( if there ever were any in Streatham on the beat)

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531colin
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby 531colin » 28 Jan 2020, 10:53am

mjr wrote:I think the class 3 mobility scooter definition should be liberalised to 10 mph.

ON THE PAVEMENT?

mercalia
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby mercalia » 28 Jan 2020, 11:16am

531colin wrote:
mjr wrote:I think the class 3 mobility scooter definition should be liberalised to 10 mph.

ON THE PAVEMENT?


the pavement should be for pedestrains only unless it has been designated as a shared path ( also for cyclists ) And these escooters should be stomped on by the cops. Let them go on the road and be stomped on by cars.

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mjr
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby mjr » 28 Jan 2020, 11:18am

531colin wrote:
mjr wrote:I think the class 3 mobility scooter definition should be liberalised to 10 mph.

ON THE PAVEMENT?

No, of course not. AFAIK Class 3s are already not allowed to operate faster than 4mph on pavements and I don't suggest changing that. Basically, they can go on the pavement only at a brisk walking speed.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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simonhill
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby simonhill » 28 Jan 2020, 11:40am

Maybe we need a better definition of "scooter".

E-scooters and disability scooters are very different vehicles.

Barks
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Barks » 28 Jan 2020, 11:50am

Sorry to say RepusMaximus your whole OP is undermined by one single point
I don't go faster than I would if jogging (about 18-20kph)
- that is very fast running nowhere near jogging and if you ran at that speed past pedestrians they would feel very uncertain if not a feared. Your using an e-scooter on any public footpath is down right irresponsible. If e-scooters ever get permission to get on roads then so be it but at the speeds they are capable of they will never be allowed on paths. Pls desist using it on footpaths immediately irrespective of the Police’s attitudes - they have far more pressing concerns than reining you in - before you injure or worse or just intimidate people using paths. If you must insist on using then then use the road.
Last edited by Barks on 28 Jan 2020, 11:53am, edited 1 time in total.

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horizon
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby horizon » 28 Jan 2020, 11:50am

reapusmaximus wrote:While I'm riding mostly on the footpaths, I don't go faster than I would if jogging (about 18-20kph) unless I have a good stretch of smooth terrain and clear visiblity of all other traffic.


If this is what I imagine it is (and sometimes experience) then I'm appalled at your anti-social attitude, immaturity and lack of awareness. So it would be helpful if we can unpack this a bit. Can you describe a bit more what you do and how and where you do it
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mjr
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby mjr » 28 Jan 2020, 12:20pm

simonhill wrote:Maybe we need a better definition of "scooter".

E-scooters and disability scooters are very different vehicles.

Yes, mobility (disability? Is this the 1980s?) scooters are far heavier, so there is an argument lighter e scooters should go further. But since bicycle was classed as a carriage if not before, traffic law has tended to extend from what it covers to new things, and using the mobility scooter law seems like an OK starting point, with them widely accepted. Rewriting definitions and rules from scratch is a high risk strategy which seems unlikely to help cycling at this time.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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simonhill
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby simonhill » 28 Jan 2020, 12:34pm

Ooooops, I was checking on Google about terminology and used disability instead of mobility (should know, a good mate has shops and I have accompanied their club on outings). Thanks for correcting me.

My point was ( meant to be) that I thought the OP was talking about small two wheel scooters, not mobility scooters. Big difference, I think.