e-scooter commuter community

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby mercalia » 29 Jan 2020, 10:27am

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:Have Evo poweboard 48V done that? I had a brief look on their website and didnt see anything. So you would need to do a personal request for approval? Then taxed and moted as with m/c? hardly worth the bother with some thing that is meant to be buy and just use like a cycle?

Yes, personal request. See the link I gave earlier. https://www.evoscooters.co.uk/road-lega ... ub-la.html

I don't think it's "can't be bothered" as much as type approval isn't economically worthwhile for a low price vehicle.


Ah well £55 dont seem to bad? But it seems Evo hasnt had them type approved? Thats some thing they should do not you? Doesnt show much confidence in their product? But I also see there is the matter of Insurance? I wonder whether any insurance company will insure them and for how much?

I wouldnt mind one of those for running around London.
Last edited by mercalia on 29 Jan 2020, 11:33am, edited 1 time in total.

reapusmaximus
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Location: Wolverhampton

Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby reapusmaximus » 29 Jan 2020, 10:35am

Jdsk wrote:
reapusmaximus wrote:... but I can comfortably run 1 km in about 5 minutes which equates to about 20kph.

Wouldn't that be about 12 kph? 1 mile, perhaps? : - )

Jonathan


yeah my bad, sorry not really done much scientific study of my running speed at various distances for a long time I just know I used to regularly clock 20kph average for a brisk jog around the track (last time I measured a full 1500m at max effort took about 4.5 minutes) and 30kph toward the max sprint end in short bursts. In context olympic sprinters average about 37kph over 100m - I guess I am still fairly healthy despite being a tad overweight. The point I am trying to make is that I wouldn't ride the scooter any faster than I could run. So I can jump off at any stage and be within a few strides of stopping without any danger of hitting the floor in a tumble. Obviously someone with less agility than me may well struggle to emergency-stop effectively at the same speed - but I am aware of my own limitations and ensure I ride well within them - if everyone did the same for all modes of transport then I don't think there would be such concern?

PH
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby PH » 29 Jan 2020, 11:01am

reapusmaximus wrote:I tried cycling my 7km commute during the summer and found it sucked; terrible roads, absence of cycle lanes and generally too many psychotic road users.

When they legalise and regulate scooters it's likely to be on the same basis as E-bikes, I can't see them being treated any different, permitted to have faster more powerful motors or go where bikes are not. If so, you're back to where you started, either using the roads and facilities you don't like or using it outside the regulations.
Used responsibly, I have no issue, in exactly the same way I have no issue with riding on the pavement or ignoring traffic regulations. But you don't have to look far to see people acting irresponsibly whatever mode of transport they're using, regulation on it's own isn't going to do anything about that.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Cyril Haearn » 29 Jan 2020, 11:10am

I want to ask those who use e-scooters:
How have your travel habits changed?
The trips by e-scooter, how were they made before? Cycle, walk, car, bus, tram, train? Or are they new trips?
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Syd
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Syd » 29 Jan 2020, 11:11am

reapusmaximus wrote:
Syd wrote:OP you jog at 18-20kph? That’s 2:06 to 2:20 marathon pace!


LOL think I already covered that, but I can comfortably run 1 km in about 5 minutes which equates to about 20kph. Obviously that kind of pace is tough to sustain for longer distances even for decent athletes, and if I was such (and didn't mind getting to work in a sweaty mess) then I would just run each day. Realistically, going to work by foot would take me about an hour which isn't practical when I have to squeeze in the school run, but using the e-scooter means I can cut that time in half and not need 2 extra showers per day - trying to do my bit for the environment :-)

My marathon pace averaged 5 mins 25 sec per km.

As pointed out elsewhere 1km in 5 minutes is only 12kph not 20. 1mph in 5 minutes is shifting and equates to 19.3 kph (but is mixing units).

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horizon
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby horizon » 29 Jan 2020, 11:16am

reapusmaximus wrote:
horizon wrote:If this is what I imagine it is (and sometimes experience) then I'm appalled at your anti-social attitude, immaturity and lack of awareness. So it would be helpful if we can unpack this a bit. Can you describe a bit more what you do and how and where you do it


Horizon (& Barks with similar response) I must say I think your responses are a little over the top, although probably coloured by personal experience of a negative nature so I understand your tendency toward hostility, however I should probably have explained myself better initially, I was trying to be as concise as possible to introduce a discussion rather than bore everyone with an essay. However for clarity I will as you request, unpack this a bit...



reapusmaximus: I really appreciate your response (I thought you might not come back!). This is a really important and controversial topic and needs to be aired. You might have started a long thread - but that's good. Please feel free to fight your corner and put the other side of the argument so it can be thrashed out!
The experience of travel is something that you have to pay for but can never buy. Ho Ri Zon Chinese philosopher

reapusmaximus
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Location: Wolverhampton

Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby reapusmaximus » 29 Jan 2020, 11:55am

horizon wrote:reapusmaximus: I really appreciate your response (I thought you might not come back!). This is a really important and controversial topic and needs to be aired. You might have started a long thread - but that's good. Please feel free to fight your corner and put the other side of the argument so it can be thrashed out!


Likewise - I joined up exactly to explore the opinions of the wider community who have vastly more road experience on their preferred mode of transport. I am hoping to challenge misconceptions along the way, but am certainly not selling an ideology, and I'd much rather learn if/where I am going wrong through constructive discussions like this than via an actual conflict out in the real world. It is really important to establish what constitutes unacceptable behaviour and work together to weed it out, and I know it will take some time for the wider community to reach any consensus about what is acceptable, or at least tolerable - but that is the goal to set a starting point for proper understanding of the situation.

Remember I am still learning, so feel free to call me out if I say anything that smells like BS! :-)

reapusmaximus
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby reapusmaximus » 29 Jan 2020, 12:28pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I want to ask those who use e-scooters:
How have your travel habits changed?
The trips by e-scooter, how were they made before? Cycle, walk, car, bus, tram, train? Or are they new trips?


For me I only started using the e-scooter to replace driving to work as much as possible - I got rid of my little runaround car as it is obsolete since I still have a campervan which I can use when I am ill or the weather is too severe or if I need to carry passengers or make additional detours aside from my actual commute etc. My trip is 7km each way, but it is mostly across the industrial part of town which is poorly served by the public transport network. Any trips I need to make that are shorter or with less time constraints are made on foot, or by bike when the weather is nice.

It has taken a little while to get into the swing of it, and learn how to be safe and responsible - but I feel it makes a really positive difference - I interact with pedestrians on the way rather than being insulated in the bubble of the cockpit, soaking up the road rage - so the journey is socially rewarding. It is also more physically active as I am standing and constantly adjusting position for balance, while frequently using foot power to navigate junctions/kerbs or other obstructions, and also the occasional push to assist the motor going up hills. I finish my journey with a slight buzz but without feeling particularly tired. It is also more mentally stimulating as you need to sustain a much higher level of awareness to drive appropriately to the conditions and anticipate risks and navigate obstructions - this is good as I find it is far too easy to revert to autopilot in the car, being the primary cause of most road traffic incidents, even riding a bike can lead to complacency as they can coast at quite high speeds with little interaction with the handle bars. On an e-scooter you have to make a conscious effort to almost stop just to scratch your nose, since removing one hand from the bars at any speed can easily result in a flying face-plant into the floor! after getting rid of the spare car, I am much more likely to walk to the local shops (with my granny trolley!) rather than taking the easy option of driving up to Asda, so I am more contributing more to the local economy also - there are plenty of other fringe benefits I never really think too much about to be honest...

Tangled Metal
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Tangled Metal » 29 Jan 2020, 1:02pm

mercalia wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Evo poweboard 48V is road legal in the UK btw. You just need to fill out some official paperwork and hold a valid driver's licence. It has road type tyres, front and rear lights, front and rear disc brakes and a seat that can be removed. 24mph top speed and 15.5 miles range estimated.

Just thought I'd point out they can be road legal right now.


any reference to back that up as when I google cant find anything or in general say they aint.

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/test-centre/gadget/best-electric-scooters-3631238/

Didn't really look much further than this review. It's a site I like for reviews but it has links.

Btw doesn't a standard car license allow for riding certain types of powered, two wheeled transport types like mopeds up to certain engine size/ max speed or pedelecs? I'd reckon that's the sort of vehicle class this would fit.

I've never had a desire to ride any non human powered two wheeled mode of transport so haven't studied the legal aspects deeply.

simonhill
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby simonhill » 29 Jan 2020, 1:04pm

Please write shorter paragraphs and make plenty of line breaks. This makes it much easier to read your long posts, especially on a phone. Ta.

simonhill
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby simonhill » 29 Jan 2020, 1:09pm

My main worry riding one of these on the road would be the appalling surface, particularly in the near the kerb area.

I struggle on expedition wheels and 1.6 tyres. I can't imagine riding those tiny wheels on most roads. Will this lead to almost default riding on the marginally better pavements.

Tangled Metal
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby Tangled Metal » 29 Jan 2020, 1:19pm

Well my then 6 yo son saw a guy riding an e scooter on the pavement and immediately stated that it was not legal but a little more forcefully shall we say! It's never too early to teach the laws regarding the highways. You just have to put it in ways they'll understand.

reapusmaximus
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby reapusmaximus » 29 Jan 2020, 1:41pm

simonhill wrote:My main worry riding one of these on the road would be the appalling surface, particularly in the near the kerb area.

I struggle on expedition wheels and 1.6 tyres. I can't imagine riding those tiny wheels on most roads. Will this lead to almost default riding on the marginally better pavements.


Yes definitely - most drains are impossible to ride over, and sunken or raised ironwork are common and can be hard to spot until very close. The footpaths are indeed only marginally better in many places - but there is more space to dodge duck dive and dodge and slow down to navigate - such manouevres in the cycle path at the side of a road are more likely to cause encroachment on cyclists sharing that space or even into the main vehicle carriageway.

Riding the roads by me feels a little like trying to drive a shopping trolley over a cattle-grid - and that is before I encounter the ironwork!

Standardising e-scooters with larger [front] wheels could well make them safer for road use, but I think that increased "off road capability" might encourage more risky riding. I think I prefer to slow down and carry over the kerb or weave around obstacles instead of powering over everything BMX style. I'm sure research and testing will establish where that line should be drawn.

tatanab
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby tatanab » 29 Jan 2020, 1:50pm

simonhill wrote:My main worry riding one of these on the road would be the appalling surface, particularly in the near the kerb area.
This is not where a cyclist would be. I think the old DfT guidance said to be positioned 0.75 to 1metre from the kerb. Perhaps the sorts of people who would use these scooters are similar to those cyclists who ride close to the kerb. Small diameter wheels are susceptible to every little hole and ripple which can make them difficult on broken surfaces.

My concern is that any legislation accepting these as "carriages", hence able to use the carriageway, is likely to muddy the water about similar electrically powered devices such as the sort of board with 2 outboard wheels like a segway without the upright. I saw a local lad riding one of those. I had to admire his skill in staying upright, but frowned at his parent's lack of concern for the law (the lad was about 10). I also saw a middle aged woman with one of these scooters, on the pavement of course.

Production pedal cycles have to comply with BS6102 part 1 (superseded by BSEN14764 and subsequent numbers) and electrically assisted cycles by BSEN15194. I do not believe there is any such standard for these scooters and other variants ----YET.

mattheus
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Re: e-scooter commuter community

Postby mattheus » 29 Jan 2020, 1:52pm

Have these things got any brakes? (apologies if a dumb question!)

I know e-bikes do.