Braking in corners

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 20 Feb 2020, 7:22pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
thatsnotmyname wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote: Use all of the road.


....and get hit by a truck coming the other way. Great idea.

I see ban coming soon :roll:
But I digress....back on subject.
I commonly use as much of the road I need as long as you are not inconveniencing other users, and are safe about it to all road users.
So I don't ride / drive on the wrong side of blind corner forcing others to brake or ditch in hedge to avoid me!
That means I am happy to overtake cleanly, but restrict using all the road if someone might see me, like the fuzz :P

Exactly. Judge the environment, don’t extract the urine, keep it safe.

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The utility cyclist
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Location: The first garden city

Re: Braking in corners

Postby The utility cyclist » 20 Feb 2020, 7:27pm

Jd843 wrote:Hi

I want to improve my cornering, particularly on hairpins on descents. One of the main tips I’ve heard is to never brake through a corner - by the time you start to lean the bike over, you should be completely off your brakes. Makes sense to me.

But something is bugging me. I’ve watched a lot of YouTube videos of descents, including those by pros/ex-pros, where they brake into corners A LOT. Example here: https://youtu.be/RQqugV1pQOY

Please can someone explain this to me? I know a pro cyclist is going to be a lot more skilled at cornering, but I’d have thought being skilled wouldn’t help if you lose traction on a corner due to braking... does “don’t brake through a corner” just mean don’t brake harshly?

Thanks!

Dowsett whilst a top athlete and I respect him as a rider, looks on that video to be a poor judge of speed for the corners he's taking, he's clearly not able to reduce his speed to the correct level to make the turns without several bites of the cherry and multiple adjustments mid corner.

Others are saying that's fine, feathering the brakes a second, third or fourth time, and whilst for some corners that change camber/angle/steepness and direction you may have to brake again OUT of the corner when changing your direction, you ultimately want to be able to do that without braking again and again and again. In a race they'll be wanting to enter a corner at as high a speed as possible to avoid being dive bombed, but as we see all too often in pro racing this leads to crashes, braking multiple times is not as smooth nor IMO safe.

Leisure riders pushing too fast and then having to brake again and again to make the corner just isn't necessary and is less safe.
If you look at Dowsett's video on descending ('Alex Dowsett teaches descending') this to me proves he does not understand descending/cornering fully.

He talks about following other people, he talks about staying calm but at no point does he talk about using the road width and the line you might want to be taking and why, what to do and not to do with your body or bike, he does not mention anything about braking points and how to judge them, nothing to do with seeing the road surface and how that might effect your line/safety, hi9s 'advice' consists of just follow others in front and you'll be fine. :shock:

I would never watch or listen to advice for descending from a rider like Dowsett in all honesty, there are far, far better out there to be taking tips from.

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Mick F
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby Mick F » 20 Feb 2020, 7:38pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Mick F wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:I have driven in some hilly places but not in Cornwall
I read some advice: use the same gear to drive up as to drive down, seems to make sense maybe, one should not use the brakes much


In a car, you could go into 2nd or 1st before you get to the bends, but it's very much overkill.
Just stay in top gear and dab the brakes on the corners
.
Ditto on the bike.


Not my advise Mick, unless I misunderstood you?
I do not use the brakes much on the camper, the braking from a normally aspirated diesel engine with a long stroke crank is colossal!
I commonly use 2nd gear (although its 30 max speed 2nd, 45 in 3rd) on steep downhills in devon and cornwall.
I thought thats what good safe drivers do?
Failure to use gearbox correctly will lead to brake failure and loss of control leading to skids etc.

My mate drived his diesel by not changing down on hills.........result was driving into a stationary vehicle waiting patiently for him at bottom of hill :evil:

Like I said maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?
Go from Gunnislake to Tavistock along the A390.
Climb out of the valley up to Gulworthy, then down past the Harvest Home and down and down and down to Lumburn.

Corners, and tight ones at that.
Downhill bends all the way.
You cannot get round them without braking unless you are going very slowly in a very low gear.

Cycling down them is impossible without braking on the bends.
Mick F. Cornwall

thatsnotmyname
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby thatsnotmyname » 20 Feb 2020, 7:44pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote: Use all of the road.


....and get hit by a truck coming the other way. Great idea.


Using all of the road makes it less likely you'll get hit by a truck. It is, genuinely, a great idea.


You'll need to be clearer then. If you use 'all of the road', presumably that means using the 'entire width of the road', including the opposite carriageway? The 'opposite carriageway' that might have vehicles travelling in the opposite direction? I don't see how that's a great idea.
Last edited by thatsnotmyname on 20 Feb 2020, 7:46pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby Cyril Haearn » 20 Feb 2020, 7:45pm

I brake anywhere including on bends
Fixie. Simples :wink:
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Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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peetee
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Location: Cornwall

Re: Braking in corners

Postby peetee » 20 Feb 2020, 8:18pm

I can think of lots of bends on seriously steep hills where abstaining from braking on the bends will, if you are lucky, put you in the next field. Rosedale Chimney bank and Wrynose Pass are good examples. The hairpin bends are themselves so steep that not covering the brakes would see your speed increase dramatically before you get back on the straight bit, which you won’t because you will just go all tangental, over the nearest drystone wall. :shock:
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby Cyril Haearn » 20 Feb 2020, 9:10pm

Reminds me, I do dislike cycling downhill, much prefer going up :wink:
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2020, 10:55pm

thatsnotmyname wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:
....and get hit by a truck coming the other way. Great idea.


Using all of the road makes it less likely you'll get hit by a truck. It is, genuinely, a great idea.


You'll need to be clearer then. If you use 'all of the road', presumably that means using the 'entire width of the road', including the opposite carriageway? The 'opposite carriageway' that might have vehicles travelling in the opposite direction? I don't see how that's a great idea.


If you are in the opposite carriageway you can see a lot further around the corner, and be seen by any incoming traffic much sooner than otherwise.

You have plenty of time, and, critically, a very safe trajectory to return to your official side of the road should there be anything coming.

If, on the other hand, you hug the curb, you have no sight of oncoming traffic, and they cannot see you. Should you misjudge the corner, your trajectory will take you directly and promptly into the path of said unsighted oncoming traffic.

Obviously, this only applies, in the uk, to left hand corners.

thatsnotmyname
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby thatsnotmyname » 20 Feb 2020, 10:58pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:Obviously, this only applies, in the uk, to left hand corners.


Ironically, the accompanying diagram showed a right-hander. Which kind of illustrates the point I was making.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2020, 11:00pm

thatsnotmyname wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Obviously, this only applies, in the uk, to left hand corners.


Ironically, the accompanying diagram showed a right-hander. Which kind of illustrates the point I was making.


Seems we agree :-)

thatsnotmyname
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby thatsnotmyname » 20 Feb 2020, 11:04pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Obviously, this only applies, in the uk, to left hand corners.


Ironically, the accompanying diagram showed a right-hander. Which kind of illustrates the point I was making.


Seems we agree :-)


Seems you've mis-read the diagram, more like. You seem to think the 'green route' is a great idea - despite crossing onto the opposite carriageway on a potentially blind hairpin. If you can explain that one away, I'll be waiting..

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Braking in corners

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2020, 11:06pm

thatsnotmyname wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:
Ironically, the accompanying diagram showed a right-hander. Which kind of illustrates the point I was making.


Seems we agree :-)


Seems you've mis-read the diagram, more like. You seem to think the 'green route' is a great idea - despite crossing onto the opposite carriageway on a potentially blind hairpin. If you can explain that one away, I'll be waiting..


Read what I wrote.

thatsnotmyname
Posts: 328
Joined: 23 Jan 2020, 10:23am

Re: Braking in corners

Postby thatsnotmyname » 20 Feb 2020, 11:09pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Seems we agree :-)


Seems you've mis-read the diagram, more like. You seem to think the 'green route' is a great idea - despite crossing onto the opposite carriageway on a potentially blind hairpin. If you can explain that one away, I'll be waiting..


Read what I wrote.


I've read it. Still waiting.

Marcus Aurelius
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Joined: 1 Feb 2018, 10:20am

Re: Braking in corners

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 21 Feb 2020, 12:00am

roubaixtuesday wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Using all of the road makes it less likely you'll get hit by a truck. It is, genuinely, a great idea.


You'll need to be clearer then. If you use 'all of the road', presumably that means using the 'entire width of the road', including the opposite carriageway? The 'opposite carriageway' that might have vehicles travelling in the opposite direction? I don't see how that's a great idea.


If you are in the opposite carriageway you can see a lot further around the corner, and be seen by any incoming traffic much sooner than otherwise.

You have plenty of time, and, critically, a very safe trajectory to return to your official side of the road should there be anything coming.

If, on the other hand, you hug the curb, you have no sight of oncoming traffic, and they cannot see you. Should you misjudge the corner, your trajectory will take you directly and promptly into the path of said unsighted oncoming traffic.

Obviously, this only applies, in the uk, to left hand corners.

Again, quite right.

Marcus Aurelius
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Joined: 1 Feb 2018, 10:20am

Re: Braking in corners

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 21 Feb 2020, 12:02am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Reminds me, I do dislike cycling downhill, much prefer going up :wink:

Yep, I hate descending, especially if it’s twisty. However, descending well is a really good way of making time, if that’s your bag.