Braking in corners

[The utility cyclist]

Ironically, the accompanying diagram showed a right-hander. Which kind of illustrates the point I was making.

Seems we agree

Seems you've mis-read the diagram, more like. You seem to think the 'green route' is a great idea - despite crossing onto the opposite carriageway on a potentially blind hairpin. If you can explain that one away, I'll be waiting..

Wouldn't coming DOWN hill mean that the blind aspect as you describe it, is in fact not blind at all in many instances because you're able to see what is around the bend due to the height differential? And if you can't see, then very few persons are going to risk taking that line into the opposite carriageway as per the diagram.

[jimlews]

Learning to drive (Boo Hiss!) I was told: 'for any corner, anywhere in the world, SLOW IN and FAST OUT'.
So brake before the corner then power out. I've found that doing this is actually faster in car or on a pedal cycle.

[thatsnotmyname]

Seems we agree

Seems you've mis-read the diagram, more like. You seem to think the 'green route' is a great idea - despite crossing onto the opposite carriageway on a potentially blind hairpin. If you can explain that one away, I'll be waiting..

Wouldn't coming DOWN hill mean that the blind aspect as you describe it, is in fact not blind at all in many instances because you're able to see what is around the bend due to the height differential? And if you can't see, then very few persons are going to risk taking that line into the opposite carriageway as per the diagram.

Absolutely. Which further underlines my point that a simplistic suggestion for ‘using all the road’ is a bad idea.

[Mick F]

Learning to drive (Boo Hiss!) I was told: 'for any corner, anywhere in the world, SLOW IN and FAST OUT'.
So brake before the corner then power out. I've found that doing this is actually faster in car or on a pedal cycle.

How can you "power out" of a downhill hairpin on a downhill road where you need to be braking all the time?

Therefore, it's plainly not any corner anywhere in the world.

[roubaixtuesday]

Learning to drive (Boo Hiss!) I was told: 'for any corner, anywhere in the world, SLOW IN and FAST OUT'.
So brake before the corner then power out. I've found that doing this is actually faster in car or on a pedal cycle.

How can you "power out" of a downhill hairpin on a downhill road where you need to be braking all the time?

Therefore, it's plainly not any corner anywhere in the world.

Just for example, X marks the corners where exactly this applies on a bike descending the Cat and Fiddle. Continuous braking is not necessary, or advisable, on many less steep descents.

[simonhill]

Having read this. I wondered what I did. I am essentially a tourer with moderate load and exercise caution rather than laid over speed.

Today, I was lucky enough to have a wonderful coastal ride. Nothing too severe, but a few longish climbs and plenty of fast open corner descents. The only hairpins were up.

Sure enough, I don't brake once cornering. But what I found was if the bike was running away a bit (ie quite steep) and if road conditions permitted (light traffic), I went into the corner straight, heading deep into it* while braking fairly hard. This means I could brake a lot further into the corner. Having lost the speed, I then complete the corner and let gravity accelerate me out.

It's not quite as dramatic or right angled as it sounds and seems to work, or rather it does for me. The alternative of stopping braking as I enter the corner would have me running away too fast by the time I exited.

Does that make sense? Any comments?

Edit *said apex by mistake.

[mattheus]

...
Sure enough, I don't brake once cornering. But what I found was if the bike was running away a bit (ie quite steep) and if road conditions permitted (light traffic), I went into the corner straight, heading deep into it* while braking fairly hard. This means I could brake a lot further into the corner. Having lost the speed, I then complete the corner and let gravity accelerate me out.

It's not quite as dramatic or right angled as it sounds and seems to work, or rather it does for me. The alternative of stopping braking as I enter the corner would have me running away too fast by the time I exited.

Does that make sense? Any comments?

Edit *said apex by mistake.

Yup, makes sense. It's not the perfect approach, but its not toooo far from it. If you scroll back to the physics teacher's lecture, you should see that what you're doing is a variation on what he describes

[Mick F]

This morning, I was out on a ride and came down into the village by the back lanes rather than the 40mph descent on the main A390.
One corner in Dimson at the top of King Street is called Chimney Corner.
Tight righthander on a hill.

I tried to get round without braking.
Impossible, but I did release the brakes for a second or so after I rounded the apex. Not good visibility there and it's a single track road, so the brakes have to be used and you can't go fast.
Most of the way down King Street I had the brakes on, and hard too as I came round the bend into The Orchard and called in at the Health Centre.

Map by way of illustration.

Chimney Corner at the top of King Street.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.52616 ... 312!8i6656

[roubaixtuesday]

This morning, I was out on a ride and came down into the village by the back lanes rather than the 40mph descent on the main A390.
One corner in Dimson at the top of King Street is called Chimney Corner.
Tight righthander on a hill.

I tried to get round without braking.
Impossible, but I did release the brakes for a second or so after I rounded the apex. Not good visibility there and it's a single track road, so the brakes have to be used and you can't go fast.
Most of the way down King Street I had the brakes on, and hard too as I came round the bend into The Orchard and called in at the Health Centre.

Map by way of illustration.Screen Shot 2020-02-21 at 15.04.56.png

Chimney Corner at the top of King Street.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.52616 ... 312!8i6656

"Not on Chimney corner" and "not any corner anywhere in the world" are not synonymous!

I'm sure everyone would agree there are many corners on steep descents where continuous hard breaking is essential.

[foxyrider]

Learning to drive (Boo Hiss!) I was told: 'for any corner, anywhere in the world, SLOW IN and FAST OUT'.
So brake before the corner then power out. I've found that doing this is actually faster in car or on a pedal cycle.

How can you "power out" of a downhill hairpin on a downhill road where you need to be braking all the time?

Therefore, it's plainly not any corner anywhere in the world.

Of course you can Mick, you shouldn't be braking all the time, just the act of releasing the brakes in this situation will give you acceleration

[Mick F]

............ but it's steep downhill.
You must be braking continuously as you'd be going dangerously fast.

[jimlews]

Learning to drive (Boo Hiss!) I was told: 'for any corner, anywhere in the world, SLOW IN and FAST OUT'.
So brake before the corner then power out. I've found that doing this is actually faster in car or on a pedal cycle.

How can you "power out" of a downhill hairpin on a downhill road where you need to be braking all the time?

Therefore, it's plainly not any corner anywhere in the world.

Gravity.

Incidentally, You will note that I didn't say never apply the brakes in a corner.

The reason one should brake before is to set a safe speed for the corner, then one may apply modulated braking as required, rather than going in hell for leather, panic braking and becoming intimately acquainted with the landscape in an unpleasant manner.

Ahh, modulated braking; a sadly neglected art!

I humbly suggest that 'fast out' is entirely at your discretion.

[Mick F]

Spot on.
Nicely put.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Learning to drive (Boo Hiss!) I was told: 'for any corner, anywhere in the world, SLOW IN and FAST OUT'.
So brake before the corner then power out. I've found that doing this is actually faster in car or on a pedal cycle.

How can you "power out" of a downhill hairpin on a downhill road where you need to be braking all the time?

Therefore, it's plainly not any corner anywhere in the world.

Unless it’s a flat crit course, or on a race track.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Learning to drive (Boo Hiss!) I was told: 'for any corner, anywhere in the world, SLOW IN and FAST OUT'.
So brake before the corner then power out. I've found that doing this is actually faster in car or on a pedal cycle.

How can you "power out" of a downhill hairpin on a downhill road where you need to be braking all the time?

Therefore, it's plainly not any corner anywhere in the world.

Gravity.

Incidentally, You will note that I didn't say never apply the brakes in a corner.

The reason one should brake before is to set a safe speed for the corner, then one may apply modulated braking as required, rather than going in hell for leather, panic braking and becoming intimately acquainted with the landscape in an unpleasant manner.

Ahh, modulated braking; a sadly neglected art!

I humbly suggest that 'fast out' is entirely at your discretion.

“Panic” and “trail” braking are only separated by the size of one’s cojones.