Help Identifying my bike

[widdo]

Hi guys, Myself and a friend are due to complete the Coast to Coast 16-19 April to raise money for a friends cancer treatment, However we have decided to do this on old shopper bikes. MY friend has a Raleigh Twenty, And i have this.... A Raleigh Plaza? I can find very little info on the internet about these, I bought it cheap a few miles away...

The condition is very good so i guess it isnt that old, I will be after advice on a few upgrades too.

if anyone has any nfo on the possible age, worth, etc of this bike that would help me greatly

Thanks

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[Brucey]

it looks very similar to lots of bikes made in eastern Europe at one time. If it is one of those then I would say that it isn't worth as much as a Raleigh 20. The Raleigh 20 will be fitted with 20 x 1-3/8" tyres (451mm rims) and yours is (I suspect) fitted with 406mm rims; also 20" but not the same size tyres at all.

For changes, upgrades etc

-saddle
-handlebars
-tyres
-pedals
- gearing

could all be changed and this might transform the way the bikes ride.

cheers

[foxyrider]

Its still got the shipping covers on the front wheel nuts!

Most likely bought mail order, thousands of these things flooded the market from the 70's through to at least the turn of the century. I would suggest the first job would be a good check over by someone who really knows bikes - a few quid spent at your LBS now may save heartache further down the line.

[gaz]

if anyone has any nfo on the possible age, ...

There may be manufacturing date codes on some components. Rear hub (Sturmey Archer) seems likely. Post details of any seemingly random letters/numbers stamped on the shell.

Beyond that IIRC front and spoke reflectors at POS likely date it no earlier than the mid-80's.

[jimlews]

I bought it cheap a few miles away...

I will be after advice on a few upgrades too

[img]20200223_142906.jpg[/img]

Not meaning to be rude, but.. I'm not sure there is any such thing as cheap with a bike like that. Upgrades? Forget it!

Now, as to a replacement, I would recommend a Dawes Kingpin; similar to , but much better than your mates Raleigh in as much as it has such subtle refinements as proper headset bearings etc. They were available with or without the hinge in the middle. I would go for the one without. Lighter and stiffer. The Dawes Kingpin rides pretty well and has the makings of a reasonable tourer. Cheap and plentiful, these are almost a bargain, in fact.

[iandusud]

I bought it cheap a few miles away...

I will be after advice on a few upgrades too

[img]20200223_142906.jpg[/img]

Not meaning to be rude, but.. I'm not sure there is any such thing as cheap with a bike like that. Upgrades? Forget it!

Now, as to a replacement, I would recommend a Dawes Kingpin; similar to , but much better than your mates Raleigh in as much as it has such subtle refinements as proper headset bearings etc. They were available with or without the hinge in the middle. I would go for the one without. Lighter and stiffer. The Dawes Kingpin rides pretty well and has the makings of a reasonable tourer. Cheap and plentiful, these are almost a bargain, in fact.

I totally agree with the above. I sold lots of Raleigh 20s (the ones with 20x1 3/8 wheels), the later Raleighs with 20x1.75 (like yours) and Dawes Kingpins. The Kingpin was definitely the best of the bunch and yours the worst I'm afraid. As above, if you don't need it to fold, a rigid one is the better option purely for weight saving - the folding mechanism is perfectly sound. I'm referring to the ones built in the 80s and not the more recent alloy framed ones.

Ian

[Brucey]

Kingpins are a bit heavy and they use a now 'slightly difficult' tyre/rim size. But they were made in more or less the same form from the mid 1960s and they are constructed like a 'proper bike'.

This is the (first?) 1964 version



Initially the folding version was called the 'Newpin'. The following year both models were called 'Kingpin' whether folding or not, and apart from aberrations like calling the non-folding version KP500 (which made it sound more like a bag of peanuts than a bike) it stayed that way until the 1980s.

Some early versions had features you wouldn't expect, such as derailleur gears, or aluminium mudguards, or stainless mudguards, or stainless steel rims. All used 37-440 (500A) tyres. Originally they would have come with Michelin 'comfort' tyres; whitewall with their classic zig-zag tread. Amazingly Michelin still make a whitewall tyre in this size (they perhaps didn't for a while). New 440 rims are however more of a problem.

Using the 20" x 1-3/8" (451mm) rim size gives a good choice in rims; (this size is used by some BMX racers) and the tyre choice is OK. Not brilliant but OK. Using a 406 wheel results in good tyre and rim choice but problematic brake clearances on machines meant for 440 or 451 wheels.

So a Kingpin (with sound rims) is a fairly easy bike to work on; no funny screw threads, a proper headset, and most of the original parts are fairly serviceable. But (in common with a lot of folders) the brakes are not great by modern standards; a SA drum brake at the front can fix that though.

cheers

[widdo]

Thanks for all your replies guys, I know nothing about these bikes, I have found a Dawes kingpin 30 miles away, Looks good condition, Says its a ladies but i assume they are generally unisex? Its £50 is this a normal kind of price?

Again, Thanks for your replies

[tatanab]

Its £50 is this a normal kind of price?

About 5 years ago I paid £30 for a 1973 folding KIngpin from a cycle recycling charity. It needed new tyres and I changed some other parts. I'd say that £50 is okay.

[widdo]

Its £50 is this a normal kind of price?

About 5 years ago I paid £30 for a 1973 folding KIngpin from a cycle recycling charity. It needed new tyres and I changed some other parts. I'd say that £50 is okay.

Thanks, It looks decent condition. ITs a non folding one, I dont mind spending whatever as long as its gunna get me from coast to coast haha.

[Brucey]

as I mentioned above the wheel rims on a Kingpin are arguably the most important part; practically everything else is relatively easy to replace/repair if needs be.

I'm sure that you could do the ride on the bike first shown but a (well set-up) Kingpin would be an inherently better bike.

BTW you get extra style points if you have one of those tartan bags on the rack.

Just sayin'....

cheers

[tatanab]

BTW you get extra style points if you have one of those tartan bags on the rack.

£30 plus new tyres. Lowered gearing by changing rear sprocket, 65" top gear. Dual pivot brake on the front plus modern brake blocks. Less than £60 all told. Not something to ride briskly, the position is aweful.

[widdo]

I cant get in touch with the person selling the Kingpin, So tomorrow i am going to look at a Twenty, 1970s i think it is, had new tyres and tubes, Owner said its in extremely good condition. Non folder too.

[jimlews]

FYI

https://sheldonbrown.com/blog/2017/01/1 ... -expanded/

[Brucey]

Raleigh Twenty is a good bike but it can be a lot more trouble than you might expect. Special bugbears include

- the headset. There isn't a proper bearing in the top and the steerer is threaded 1" x 26pti which is now an extinct thread type. Raleigh claimed that the nasty plastic bush in the top of the steering was there 'because the steering was too lively otherwise'. Cynics noted that the plastic bush was dirt cheap and had their suspicions. Zillions of people have (with some difficulty ) converted to a 'proper headset' and there have been no real reports of dangerous steering; quite the reverse in fact. Draw your own conclusions.... IME a worn plastic bushing (worn on diameter) cannot be adjusted and will make a Raleigh Twenty an absolute misery to ride.

- the bottom bracket. Wider than normal and using a 26tpi thread, for which you cannot easily find bottom brackets now. Requires engineering if you want to fit anything different, and you probably will if the one that is in there is knackered; getting hold of the correct Raleigh part is difficult these days.


So a raleigh twenty is OK if it is in good condition but if it isn't it can soon turn into a fairly major project, with non-trivial problems to overcome.

cheers