Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
MartinC
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Location: Bredon

Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby MartinC » 31 Mar 2020, 1:03pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
MartinC wrote:Just a suggestion - should this thread be retitled as "Advanced nitpicking as an activity during the Covid 10 outbreak".



When you're 70 it would matter greatly if you discovered that you were really 72. Or 68 and 70.


:D :D :D

This wasn't a reference to the age related posts or anyone in particular! I'd revisited the thread after a while and had been struck by how it had degenerated into and endless rehash of what the rules were or weren't, whether they were right, wrong or imperfect and how they could be circumvented, ignored or complied with in letter only. To get called out on another side issue just adds to the surreal amusement.

P.S. I'm 68 'til next month but I often had to stop and check how old I really was, it's only the current crisis that keeps my age in mind.

mercalia
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The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby mercalia » 31 Mar 2020, 1:04pm

seems like Derbyshire has become a police state


Speaking to the BBC, Sumption [former supreme court justice] attacked the behaviour of police and singled out the Derbyshire force.

“The behaviour of the Derbyshire police in trying to shame people in using their undoubted right to take exercise in the country and wrecking beauty spots in the fells so people don’t want to go there is frankly disgraceful,” he said.



“This is what a police state is like, it is a state in which a government can issue orders or express preferences with no legal authority and the police will enforce ministers’ wishes.” He said that the force had “shamed our policing traditions”.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/30/uk-police-guidelines-coronavirus-lockdown-enforcement-powers-following-criticism-lord-sumption?

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby Oldjohnw » 31 Mar 2020, 1:21pm

MartinC wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
MartinC wrote:Just a suggestion - should this thread be retitled as "Advanced nitpicking as an activity during the Covid 10 outbreak".



When you're 70 it would matter greatly if you discovered that you were really 72. Or 68 and 70.


:D :D :D

This wasn't a reference to the age related posts or anyone in particular! I'd revisited the thread after a while and had been struck by how it had degenerated into and endless rehash of what the rules were or weren't, whether they were right, wrong or imperfect and how they could be circumvented, ignored or complied with in letter only. To get called out on another side issue just adds to the surreal amusement.

P.S. I'm 68 'til next month but I often had to stop and check how old I really was, it's only the current crisis that keeps my age in mind.


No I wasn't meaning you: just observing.

As you will note, I have difficulty with my age. I rely on a calculation based on DOB. Whilst I remember that - 1949 (indeed it is part of my email address) - I sometimes forget the current year so still get the calculation wrong! Or I just forget the adding up process.
John

francovendee
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby francovendee » 31 Mar 2020, 1:25pm

The police chief of Derbyshire has defended the use of drones. He's said the difference in numbers between the 2 weekends show that the measures are working. However he's not planning to use road checks.

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby kwackers » 31 Mar 2020, 1:32pm

francovendee wrote:The police chief of Derbyshire has defended the use of drones. He's said the difference in numbers between the 2 weekends show that the measures are working. However he's not planning to use road checks.

Depends what he's measuring.

Reducing the number of people miles from anyone else?
Yep.

Reducing the spread of the virus?
Unlikely.

Psamathe
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Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby Psamathe » 31 Mar 2020, 1:43pm

For me, resolving such behaviour needs to go beyond just stopping them being so daft but who within the Police force directed officers to undertake such extreme stupidity and are they suited to their position of authority (i.e. turning something that needs public support into enforcement through "Police state" methods without legal authority). I.e. somebody senior probably has poor judgement and too radily reverts to "Police State" methods.

Ian

Vitara
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Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby Vitara » 31 Mar 2020, 2:00pm

Lord Sumption needs to wind his neck in as far as I'm concerned.
The Police, like many of us, are doing a difficult job in an unprecedented situation.
It doesn't help that a number of people are seeing how far they can push the limits of Lockdown (see the Triathlete 200 mile ride post in the How far should we cycle thread for an extreme example).

My work means I'm out in a car during the night and early hours visiting patients. At least once a shift we've had a Police vehicle slow down and check us out, I'm expecting we'll be stopped at some point to check our credentials. I'm cool with that, they have an important job to do, and I'll do all I can to help them.

Carlton green
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Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby Carlton green » 31 Mar 2020, 2:02pm

Funnily enough I was thinking about Police enforcement this morning as I peddled along. I’d have been dammed annoyed (but still outwardly polite) about being stopped ‘cause I wasn’t far from home and basically no one else much was out so no chance of cross infection.

The Peak District visitors are something else because they are many miles from home and therefore making a journey to exercise in a beauty spot rather than some suitable place near their homes. Such movement of people isn’t helpful in terms of health, accidents and cross contamination between regions happen (or rather can happen, an unnecessary risk).

The BBC have an article here about Policing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52101040 . We all need to remember that they have a difficult job, they can’t please everybody and that even the best of us misjudge and make mistakes at times - hopefully I won’t have to remember my own words.

T-800
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Location: Penistone.

Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby T-800 » 31 Mar 2020, 2:14pm

Derbyshire Police have done themselves little good in the past couple of weeks.As well as the drone issue there was the Tweet last weekend regarding a “Lycra clad” group of club cyclists on the A57 Snake Pass,allegedly all in club kit.
Holes in this soon became apparent when they could provide no actual footage despite all the video technology modern Police/cars have.
Social media went from condemning the alleged group and calling the Police to name and shame to turning on Derbyshire Police for both the wording of the Tweet and the apparent lack of any credible evidence.
Not helping cyclists and cycling in this current situation.There’s enough vitriol against us without the authorities fanning the flames!

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 31 Mar 2020, 3:15pm

The police, police by consent in this country. If the police decide it’s going to be otherwise, I wouldn’t want to see the consequences.

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mjr
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby mjr » 31 Mar 2020, 3:16pm

francovendee wrote:The police chief of Derbyshire has defended the use of drones. He's said the difference in numbers between the 2 weekends show that the measures are working. However he's not planning to use road checks.

Where did he say this? Does he really not think that the introduction of a full legal lockdown with fines between the 2 weekends might have had some small part to play in reducing numbers?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Oldjohnw
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Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby Oldjohnw » 31 Mar 2020, 3:38pm

The police certainly do their work by consent. They need us to own rules.

But criminals never give their consent. At some point, if people continue to flout the law - or even be anti-social in their behaviour - consent doesn't really apply.
John

mercalia
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Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby mercalia » 31 Mar 2020, 3:46pm

Carlton green wrote:Funnily enough I was thinking about Police enforcement this morning as I peddled along. I’d have been dammed annoyed (but still outwardly polite) about being stopped ‘cause I wasn’t far from home and basically no one else much was out so no chance of cross infection.

The Peak District visitors are something else because they are many miles from home and therefore making a journey to exercise in a beauty spot rather than some suitable place near their homes. Such movement of people isn’t helpful in terms of health, accidents and cross contamination between regions happen (or rather can happen, an unnecessary risk).

The BBC have an article here about Policing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52101040 . We all need to remember that they have a difficult job, they can’t please everybody and that even the best of us misjudge and make mistakes at times - hopefully I won’t have to remember my own words.


well polluting the water at that beauty spot so obviously crosses the line - I wonder if they can be prosecuted?

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby kwackers » 31 Mar 2020, 3:50pm

Oldjohnw wrote:The police certainly do their work by consent. They need us to own rules.

But criminals never give their consent. At some point, if people continue to flout the law - or even be anti-social in their behaviour - consent doesn't really apply.

Once consent stops being a thing then say goodbye to your freedom.

The rules are fairly clear, the police simply decided that they could interpret them any way they liked by adding extra layers on top.
They've had their bottoms smacked and imo that's a good thing so now they can get back to enforcing the law as set down by parliament.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: The cops get their knuckles rapped

Postby roubaixtuesday » 31 Mar 2020, 3:58pm

mercalia wrote:

well polluting the water at that beauty spot so obviously crosses the line - I wonder if they can be prosecuted?


I'm told ,(though don't have a reference, might be fake news) that is something done regularly each year due to the number of drownings at the location. Beware jumping to conclusions.