Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby roubaixtuesday » 26 Mar 2020, 1:48pm

kwackers wrote:
<edit> A quick look on Tatton Parks website (NT property) suggest it's closed so the mail I got wasn't obviously a complete fabrication.


Tatton Park is run by Cheshire East council.

Only the house (and farm IIRC) is NT

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Cugel
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby Cugel » 26 Mar 2020, 3:29pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
MartinFox wrote:Reading through this forum I have been surprised by the rudeness with which some members are treating each other. Please, we are all like minded members of a cycling club and should be able to recognise that not all opinions will agree with ours. We should be able to respect differing views.

For what it’s worth, I have thought long and hard about whether I should continue to cycle during this crisis. My views changed on an almost daily basis and I have been out for a couple of rides in the last week. I have finally decided to stop. Four years ago I hit a pothole, crashed and broke my hip. No cars were involved and I guess it was my fault for not seeing the pothole, but the reality is that it is not always possible to see every danger. Roads get slippery, tires puncture and accidents happen.

I have taken the decision that the NHS has enough problems without me breaking bones. I would find it hard to live with myself if I ended up in a hospital bed at this time. Like most of you, I think, I am concerned about the fitness I will lose, but it will be fun getting it back. This is a personal decision and I continue to respect any members who think differently and continue to cycle.


We need to stay healthy and that's why the government's strict rules do allow us to go out cycling.


Home is a risky place for accidents too. In fact, I seem to recall more accidents occur there than anywhere else.

Frankly, making up theoretical but highly unlikely huge hospitalisation risks for activities like cycling - especially by very experienced cyclists - is bordering on paranoia. One is just as likely (probably a lot more likely) to have a serious accident staying at home and cutting the hedge or grass. Or doing one or more of a 101 other things we now have the opportunity to do at home but at which we have very little knowledge or practice compared to cycling.

There is no virtue in hysteria, even a mild dose.

Cugel

Psamathe
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby Psamathe » 26 Mar 2020, 3:30pm

I see Halfords is to re-open half'ish of it's stores
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/25/halfords-to-reopen-some-stores-as-firm-gives-essential-service-coronavirus wrote:Halfords to reopen branches as bike shops given 'essential' status
Halfords is aiming to reopen more than half of its stores to offer drive-through services after bike shops were designated an essential service under the government’s latest coronavirus control measures.

The car parts, bike and servicing group said it was “seeking to strike a balance between providing essential motoring and cycling services to the UK public alongside guaranteeing the personal safety of our customers and colleagues”.

At least 300 of the group’s 460 outlets will begin offering drive-in essential fittings and repairs for bikes and the exterior of vehicles. There will also be counters at store entrances where customers can pick up items from staff, as well as cashless payments.

Ian

pwa
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby pwa » 26 Mar 2020, 4:27pm

MartinFox wrote:Reading through this forum I have been surprised by the rudeness with which some members are treating each other. Please, we are all like minded members of a cycling club and should be able to recognise that not all opinions will agree with ours. We should be able to respect differing views.

For what it’s worth, I have thought long and hard about whether I should continue to cycle during this crisis. My views changed on an almost daily basis and I have been out for a couple of rides in the last week. I have finally decided to stop. Four years ago I hit a pothole, crashed and broke my hip. No cars were involved and I guess it was my fault for not seeing the pothole, but the reality is that it is not always possible to see every danger. Roads get slippery, tires puncture and accidents happen.

I have taken the decision that the NHS has enough problems without me breaking bones. I would find it hard to live with myself if I ended up in a hospital bed at this time. Like most of you, I think, I am concerned about the fitness I will lose, but it will be fun getting it back. This is a personal decision and I continue to respect any members who think differently and continue to cycle.

The only time in my adult life that I have needed the services of A&E it was because of an accident with a saw. I tried to saw wood (which I am usually very good at) but I sawed my hand instead. If I took that as my cue for being careful I would avoid all DIY including gardening. The kitchen is a common place for accidents that require hospital attention, so we could all avoid cooking too. And then there are all the sprained ankles and so on from walking in the countryside. I respect your personal choice if you feel accident prone on the bike, but there are risks everywhere and I don't feel normal cycling makes me more likely to need hospital services than many other low risk activities.

thelawnet
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby thelawnet » 26 Mar 2020, 5:24pm

Police being fascist, predictably

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/20 ... -exercise/

Saying you aren't allowed to drive to exercise.

This is not true.

Draft legislation (not yet law and the police have no powers yet) says only that

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... 2_en_1.htm
During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living
without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
(b) to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;


So in law you can leave the house to do exercise and there is no restriction on driving to do it.

If places are overcrowded then the police should close them,but that applies to city parks as much as rural beauty spots

What is clear is that the police relish the opportunity to overreach their powers

MartinFox
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby MartinFox » 26 Mar 2020, 5:36pm

Cugel wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:Home is a risky place for accidents too. In fact, I seem to recall more accidents occur there than anywhere else.

Frankly, making up theoretical but highly unlikely huge hospitalisation risks for activities like cycling - especially by very experienced cyclists - is bordering on paranoia. One is just as likely (probably a lot more likely) to have a serious accident staying at home and cutting the hedge or grass. Or doing one or more of a 101 other things we now have the opportunity to do at home but at which we have very little knowledge or practice compared to cycling.

There is no virtue in hysteria, even a mild dose.

Cugel


I think that I was fairly clear in my post that I believe it is up to the individual cyclist to make an informed decision. However, maybe I was not clear enough. I would oppose any rules or legislation that restrict cycling and I do not seek to persuade anyone to stop.

I do not believe, though, that I have been making up risks. Yes, cycling is safe. I have done it for 40 years and only had one nasty accident. I still think about that accident, particularly when there is anything slippery on the roads, ice and leaves are the usual examples. All I can recall from the accident is that one minute I was cycling happily and the next I was lying on the road trying, and failing, to move. The result was months on crutches and over a year without being able to get back on the bike.

I can see why some people would say that I am overly cautious, but I think hysterical and paranoid might be a little harsh.

Anyway, for the folk carrying on with cycling I wish you all the best. I will join you again on the other side of this. As Sergeant Esterhaus always said "Let's be careful out there."

pwa
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby pwa » 26 Mar 2020, 5:47pm

thelawnet wrote:Police being fascist, predictably

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/20 ... -exercise/

Saying you aren't allowed to drive to exercise.

This is not true.

Draft legislation (not yet law and the police have no powers yet) says only that

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... 2_en_1.htm
During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living
without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
(b) to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;


So in law you can leave the house to do exercise and there is no restriction on driving to do it.

If places are overcrowded then the police should close them,but that applies to city parks as much as rural beauty spots

What is clear is that the police relish the opportunity to overreach their powers

I don't agree that the police are fascists (Italian far right movement of the 1920s-40s), but I agree that they are misinterpreting the restrictions placed on movement. Movement for one form of exercise per day is allowed. Driving to a location to begin that exercise has not been explicitly banned as far as I am aware. If it is banned, that needs to be made clear. I am lucky and have great walks from my doorstep but a lot of people don't and can have much nicer walks, away from other people, if they drive out of town. I can't see a problem with doing that. So long as they don't all drive to the same place and it becomes overcrowded. It is the crowding that is the problem.

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foxyrider
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby foxyrider » 26 Mar 2020, 5:51pm

If i thought there was an increased risk of me needing hospital treatment due to cycling as my exercise activity i wouldn't be riding but really its just the opposite, with fewer vehicles on the roads i'm actually less likely to need NHS services. I would actually increase my potential need by switching to walking/running - both activities that have caused me more injuries than riding a bike ever has. And yes i've ended up in A&E fixing a mop so i'd be no safer indoors!

99.9% of my riding is solo anyway so thats no hardship, the only thing i've done different in terms of where i ride is to avoid popular cycle paths. For most of my life i've lived in semi rural locations, the postal address may say city/town but the location is usually within a few hundred metres of open fields so i'm not quite sure how you'd label that? My experience this week has been that out in the sticks i've been greeted with smiles and waves and mostly had no issue with 2m separation. It has been in the urban areas where it has been more difficult to follow the rules so i've stayed away as much as possible.

Instead of arguing about 'rights' and 'wrongs' lets just be glad that we are still allowed to leave the house at all. If you want to lock yourself away, thats fine, if, like me you prefer to continue your exercise and abide by the rules, go for it. Its a Marmite thing, but if you do decide to go out, abide by the rules, ride solo, observe the 2m rule as much as practical, take your own supplies and ride safely. Exercise in the fresh air while you can, we may still end up with a full lock in situation and you'll definately be moaning then.

I usually ride 3 days a week, i don't see a reason to change that, what i have decided is that on any given day i'll only go out once, no popping to the shops after a ride or multi trips out because 'no one will know', if i need to shop i can combine that with exercise by shopping further from home (i don't drive so its most likely a 6/7 mile walk instead of 1 mile.). During my 4.5 hour ride today i've not even seen, let alone come close to 2m of, less people than during yesterdays trip to the local shops.
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Sweep
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby Sweep » 26 Mar 2020, 6:02pm

thelawnet wrote:What is clear is that the police relish the opportunity to overreach their powers


I rather doubt this.

they are short-staffed to do the basic stuff and get regular pressure from policians who have slashed their budgets and resources - why on earth would they actively seek more responsibilities?

And the fascist comment is pure student politics from way back.
Sweep

ossie
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby ossie » 26 Mar 2020, 6:09pm

thelawnet wrote:Police being fascist, predictably

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/20 ... -exercise/

Saying you aren't allowed to drive to exercise.

This is not true.

Draft legislation (not yet law and the police have no powers yet) says only that

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... 2_en_1.htm
During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living
without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
(b) to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;


So in law you can leave the house to do exercise and there is no restriction on driving to do it.

If places are overcrowded then the police should close them,but that applies to city parks as much as rural beauty spots

What is clear is that the police relish the opportunity to overreach their powers



No not fascist (yawn) just putting their own take on it which in this case is incorrect.

Our local Police were sending the same message about not attending beauty spots on social media whilst a Government spokesman was on the BBC at the same time saying it was fine to drive somewhere to exercise.

thelawnet
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby thelawnet » 26 Mar 2020, 6:17pm

Sweep wrote:
thelawnet wrote:What is clear is that the police relish the opportunity to overreach their powers


I rather doubt this.

they are short-staffed to do the basic stuff and get regular pressure from policians who have slashed their budgets and resources - why on earth would they actively seek more responsibilities?

And the fascist comment is pure student politics from way back.


It's just an expression, not literally fascist.

However the police in the UK have a long history of overreaching new powers and we've seen it many times discussed here, going beyond the law and beyond the debate in Parliament and intent of legislature.

There have been police commenting on how much they'd enjoy their new powers. it's not a surprise to see at a force level them contradicting the rules and what ministers have said, what has been discussed on the BBC, and them coming up with their own version far beyond that.

And it's not only Avon & Somerset but other police forces across the country are making similar wrong claims. It's what the police do, they use their powers to stop people doing things that are perfectly lawful Give them powers and they will go beyond them. That's why we have judicial review, to stop them acting unlawfully.

pwa
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby pwa » 26 Mar 2020, 6:26pm

I have a lot of sympathy for the police. They are overstretched. But if I were stopped by them while walking or cycling, or while driving for a good reason, I would respectfully state my reasons for believing I am complying with the spirit and the letter of the law. And I would try to do it cheerfully and not make their day any harder than it already is.

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Sweep
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby Sweep » 26 Mar 2020, 6:38pm

pwa wrote:I have a lot of sympathy for the police. They are overstretched. But if I were stopped by them while walking or cycling, or while driving for a good reason, I would respectfully state my reasons for believing I am complying with the spirit and the letter of the law. And I would try to do it cheerfully and not make their day any harder than it already is.

+1
Sweep

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Sweep
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby Sweep » 26 Mar 2020, 6:39pm

A london ride

Out for 20km or so after being in for about 7 days.

Meant to head to the centre of london but got sidelined so stuck to a ride round the area of an inner london suburb - about 5 miles from the centre.

Ride much needed exercise but was also scouting out food shops - some key supplies getting low and I haven’t shopped for ten days - calculating on things calming down. Didn’t go in any in the end and kept 2 metres at least from everyone.

Sainsburys had lines marked on pavement to keep folk queuing apart But no queue when I was there late afternoon. Seemed quiet inside.

Folk keeping their distance in a line outside boots.

A large local park more busy than usual (not surprising) but folk keeping their distance - never saw more than two folk together and I assume they lived with each other.

One chemists only letting one at a time in.

Folk in street noticeably keeping their distance from each other.

Drivers possibly being more considerate - only exception a bloke on a motorbike though he wasn’t near me.

Notice on outside of my usual Aldi (nice ride) limiting folk to 2 from a list of pasta/rice/tinned tomatoes - ie only 2 total in that list - not two of each. Other stuff limited. Asked a bloke leaving and he said supplies of general stuff were fine.

Buses virtually empty.

Only two exceptions to what seemed like exemplary behaviour to me were:

3 blokes nattering outside the deserted rail/overground station making no effort at keeping apart - one spitting on the ground.

A dog with two folk I was avoiding ran towards me and in to me as I was going carefully slowly up a park hill. Heavy collision. Almost brought me off.

So apart from three blokes probably beyond hope and a dumb animal following instinct I would say all was admirabe .

Plan to get out tomorrow.
Sweep

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Paulatic
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Re: Cycling as an activity during the Covid 19 outbreak

Postby Paulatic » 26 Mar 2020, 6:52pm

Police prejudice already to the fore
Derbyshire Roads Policing Unit
@DerbyshireRPU

Essential travel and local exercise does not include driving to locations and going for walks. It does not include lycra-clad leisure cycling on the now quieter roads. It isn't just about preventing the spread of the virus but also reducing the burden on essential services. 2/3


I’m agree it’s not right to cycle in a group but why Lycra clad?
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