Can a modern day bike have longevity or do changes in standards make them obsolete or hard to maintain in the long run?

[John_S]

Can a modern day bike have longevity or do changes in standards make them obsolete or at least hard to maintain in the long run?


Hi All,

At the moment I’m thinking about buying a new bike and the cost would for me be an awful lot of money and this would be a big investment. However cycling is my main form of transport and so I am okay with making that investment. But it got me thinking about the longevity of modern day bikes with ever evolving standards and just how long you can easily keep a bike going for.

Now the bike I’m looking at is a steel bike and so a well looked after steel frame should last a very long time indeed should be good for as long as it’s looked after. But then when I started to think about things in recent years like changes from rim brakes to disc brakes (then post mount to flat mount), quick releases to thru axles etc. etc. I started to wonder at what pace these changing standards will continue and how long you can keep a good bike on the road without struggling to get parts to maintain it in the future.

I was thinking that if for example you bought a custom bike then perhaps you could make some very sensible frame feature and component choices to hopefully future proof your bike as much as possible. But what I’m talking about here is a modern day stock off the peg bike. The bike I’m looking at has a steel frame, Shimano GRX groupset, thru axles and flat mount hydraulic disc brakes. I started thinking is this the type of bike that I’ll be able to maintain and keep on the road for a very long time? I’m the type of person who tries hard to avoid buying cheap and buying twice in life and in all walks of life and if I can possibly afford to I’d prefer to pay more for a quality item then look after it and make it last rather than add to the throwaway culture trap that our society can now fall into with people willing to buy cheap, use for a short period of time and then replace with something else. But is investing in a bike to last a long time more difficult in a bike industry which is constantly evolving and changing standards? And if so are there things that people do to try and protect the long term maintenance of their bike almost like as an example stockpiling certain key components which will need replacing in the future but might also be hard to come by in the future should standards change?

Or do people accept the throwaway, replacement culture that we seem to be living in now and prefer to buy a cheaper bike that may not last as long accepting that in time standards will change and they’ll buy a new bike in the future rather than try to keep one on the road for a very long time?

Just in context I’ve cycled all of my life from growing up with my mum who has never driven and going from being on the back of her bike to then cycling with her, to then cycling to school myself, cycling around the county that I grew up in to visit friends as well as cycling for fun when I was young to now in adult life cycling as my way to get to work with commuting to cycling in leisure, whether that’s on my own, in an audax or with my kids as I cycle them to school or for leisure at the weekends. I’m now on the cusp of turning 40 and I’m thinking of treating myself to a new bike but I do like to make bikes last and even if you go back to bikes that I had in childhood I’ve not had many and have made them last. In terms of what I called proper bikes that I had probably from say around aged 9 or 10 I’ve had a Raleigh Mustang MTB, Raleigh Apex MTB, Trek 7.1FX hybrid bike (which I bought secondhand) and a Genesis Day One. They’ve all seen a lot of use with my almost daily all year round cycling and I want that to continue with any future bike that I buy particularly because to me it’ll be a significant investment but I just wondered with bikes bought now with lots of current standards how difficult do people think they’ll be to keep running long term into the future?

Thanks for any thoughts.

John

[pwa]

Just one thought. If you want to be able to source components easily in the future, disc brakes look set to dominate. I think I will be okay with my rim brakes, but disc brakes seem to be taking over.

[Paulatic]

Did you buy the VSF T-500 back in 2014 ?

[PH]

I think you'll be fine. My twenty year old bike is still using components available from Halfords. Those with forty year old bikes may have to go to the smaller more specialised retailers and have less choice, but they're still quite easily finding what they need to keep their bikes running fine. The only thing I'd be nervous of is going for a recent headset, BB or axle design, but this is easily avoided as there's plenty of tried and tested stuff available that'll still be there in future.
I'm expecting my bikes to last my lifetime.

[Oldjohnw]

Whilst disc brakes are on the increase new bikes often still have rim brakes. On that basis I would imagine rim brake components will be around for some time.

[millimole]

Just one thought. If you want to be able to source components easily in the future, disc brakes look set to dominate. I think I will be okay with my rim brakes, but disc brakes seem to be taking over.

That's interesting because my first thought while reading this was 'avoid disc brakes'!

I know very little about discs, but I gather there is a lack of standardisation, and - as with gearing - I suspect there'll be multiple competing fittings etc until the market settles down eventually.

As to the wider question, I think it would be very difficult to buy a mainstream off-the-peg bike that'll still be going strong in 75 years like my Hetchins. The problem as I see it, and you identify this, is the short lifespan of component groups particularly in the drive train. Even IHG gears seem to be susceptible to the whims of the marketing department - but that's the way I'd go, with a mainstream IHG from Sturmey /Suntour, and other very straightforward less-hi-tech mechanicals such as brakes, headset, and fittings.

[simonineaston]

That's what I'd call the Sturmey Archer paradox. I favour old Moultons. The so-called F frame Moultons were fitted with Sturmey Archer (SA) internal hub gears, as were the bulk of British bicycles, back in the '60s. We're used to finding these old Moultons, half a century later, with SA gears intact, often covered in grease and road dirt but still functioning perfectly well. So SA got one opportunity to sell one of their hubs, to Moulton (well Raleigh, really...), to put on the Moulton when it was made. No other sale of any other item is made in the intervening sixty years, apart from small spares, like cables, 'cos their hubs were in the main, reliable. Not exactly good busness - a good hub maybe, but the one sale doesn't generate much income for the company.
Turning to Shimano, whose company motto is Tomorrow's Dreams Today, or something similar... they spend a ton of money, developing new products that are tempting enough to make any red-blooded bicycle customer say, "Ooooh - I want that!" So they can sell it to the modern-day equivalent of Moulton to fit on their products when they are made AND continue to sell to existing customers, who have already bought Shimano stuff once, when they bought the bike new, but who go on to buy several more sets of Shimano 'dreams' during the life of the bike.
So on the one hand, a product that's well designed / made enough to last a life-time, or a series of products that might not last as long but which bring you new developments as the years go buy. Which is better? Depends whether you mind riding a bike fitted with a Sturmey Archer hub gear in 2020...!

[pwa]

Just one thought. If you want to be able to source components easily in the future, disc brakes look set to dominate. I think I will be okay with my rim brakes, but disc brakes seem to be taking over.

That's interesting because my first thought while reading this was 'avoid disc brakes'!

I know very little about discs, but I gather there is a lack of standardisation,

I'm thinking that people running rim brakes will one day find the choice or replacement wheel rims restricted.

[Oldjohnw]

Just one thought. If you want to be able to source components easily in the future, disc brakes look set to dominate. I think I will be okay with my rim brakes, but disc brakes seem to be taking over.

That's interesting because my first thought while reading this was 'avoid disc brakes'!

I know very little about discs, but I gather there is a lack of standardisation,

I'm thinking that people running rim brakes will one day find the choice or replacement wheel rims restricted.

But since they are still being sold it will not be any time soon. Life expectancy 10+years? Should do me.

[pwa]

That's interesting because my first thought while reading this was 'avoid disc brakes'!

I know very little about discs, but I gather there is a lack of standardisation,

I'm thinking that people running rim brakes will one day find the choice or replacement wheel rims restricted.

But since they are still being sold it will not be any time soon. Life expectancy 10+years? Should do me.

Me too. And we can stock up if supply lines start to fail. But if you don't want to have to think about that, and you are wondering what new bike to buy......

[Oldjohnw]

I'm thinking that people running rim brakes will one day find the choice or replacement wheel rims restricted.

But since they are still being sold it will not be any time soon. Life expectancy 10+years? Should do me.

Me too. And we can stock up if supply lines start to fail. But if you don't want to have to think about that, and you are wondering what new bike to buy......

People keep Morris Minors going. Maybe old Raleighs?

[John_S]

Hi All,

Thanks for the thoughts and feedback below which is much appreciated!

Hi pwa, so I know that there will be a lot of feelings about the pros & cons of disc versus rim brakes and b=preferences for one or the other but in this instance you're thinking that for longevity it'll better to have disc brakes if buying now if looking to the future and thanks for the advice.

Hi Paulatic, no I never bought a VSF bike. I do think that they look like a very good proposition though and definitely built to last and in hindsight I wish I'd bought one before the Genesis. I think I was looking at VSF bikes not long after buying my Genesis Day One Alfine 8 IGH bike. That's because my Day One just never seemed right from the start and from memory I was getting so frustrated with it that I was thinking of replacing it not long after getting it but I've stuck with it. For starters it had some very annoying creaks and after a little while a LBS found that the bottom bracket hadn't been installed correctly and they sorted that which was good. But I've always had problems with the gears slipping ever since I've had it and that's even after following lots of advice about changing cables etc. In the end after much pulling my hair out I got some very generous and expert advice/input very kindly provided by Brucey who has diagnosed the problem. There's a barrel adjuster on the gear cable near the handlebars and it is sort of self winding or unwinding itself which means that the gear cable is constantly being pulled out of position. This was a bit of a eureka revelation achieved with the help & insight from Brucey diagnosing the issue because finally I knew what the problem was. Previously I'd taken it to a local bike shop and they'd get things adjusted nicely with gears shifting fine and then a day or two later the gears would be slipping again. Now I've realised that that because of the barrel adjuster the gears are constantly being pulled out of alignment and so at least I know what the issue is. Therefore I have to check it, and often adjust it, before every single ride and it can even be a mid ride adjustment required which is just really annoying. Brucey did come up with some ideas about fixes and more permanent solutions but with having had problems for so long and ever since the bike was new I've kind of fallen out of love with the bike and I just don't enjoy riding it. Don't get me wrong I'm not going to scrap it or get rid of it. I'll keep it either in it's current state, or potentially change it to a single speeds for simplicity, and I'll keep it and use it for commuting when the weather is really horrible or if I have to use my bike and park it somewhere public that isn't particularly secure. But now that I'm getting close to 40 and seeing as cycling is my main form of transport I feel like treating myself to something new.

Hi PH, thanks for your message and thoughts that bikes can last and be kept going. The bike that I'm looking at comes with a threaded bottom bracket so that's a good thing. It comes with thru axles so I guess you're saying that's a risk should standards change in the future and I've no idea what sort of headset the bike has I'm afraid.

Hi Oldjohnw, thanks for your message and I guess that's a view that hopefully people should be okay for a good while yet whether they go for rim or disc braked bikes.

Hi millimole, thanks for your message and it's great to hear that you've got a bike going strong after 75 years. I'm not actually worried about a bike lasting that long because being on the cusp of turning 40 there's very little chance of me seeing another 75 years but I'd like any bike that I buy now to be good for at least 15-20 years if not a bit more than that would be lovely! Re: IGH I like the idea and concept of them and I currently have an IGH in the form of a Shimano Alfine 8. In one way I really like it in terms of it making the bike easier to keep clean etc but I've had numerous niggles with the gears and the gears shifting correctly and it's led to a lot of frustration with this particular bike and IGH. Perhaps it's more of an issue with the set up and me. Maybe a different bike and Shimano IGH would have been better or as you say maybe I've got the wrong brand of IGH because perhaps a Sturmey, Suntour or Rohloff IGH would be much better.

Hi simonineaston, thanks for the message and I found this really interesting and definitely some good food for thought here. I guess that this is an interesting part of the puzzle in that there are bikes and components such as the Moulton and Sturmey Archer IGHs that were mechanically well engineers and built to last and with careful maintenance are built to last the test of time. However we also live in a world whereby bike manufacturers and component makers have to constantly reinvent, tweak and release new products in order to grab our attention and get us to buy the newest and latest models and gadgets. It's only by doing this that the wheels of capitalism keep churning because if we all bought one bike in our lifetime and kept just that it wouldn't be that great for bike sales.

I'm not the sort of person who is ever going to fall into the cycle of buying a new bike every year because when I buy a bike I do make them last even when they're driving me mad as has been the case with the Genesis Day One fitted with the Alfine 8 IGH. But whilst riding an simultaneously pulling my hair our whilst riding the Day One and the gears start slipping yet again it's made me want to treat myself for my 40th birthday and get a new bike.

I was thinking of buying this and giving the Alfine 8 IGH one more chance:-

https://www.shandcycles.com/shop/bikes/leveret

But I use dynamo lighting because with year round commuting whatever the weather and I find having a dynamo lighting set up much more convenient through autumn, winter & spring much more convenient with having lights just there ready to go rather than always having to worry about charging battery lights. On my Day One I have the dynamo headlight fitted at the top of the fork using the hole that is at the top of the fork crown on the front of the fork and I find that a convenient place to have a light. I have discussed on this forum some ideas about where else to fit a dynamo light and people on here have come up with some very helpful and good ideas to come up with alternative ways of mounting the light.

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=136985

But I've sort of been thinking about two nagging issues being (1) I'm worried about getting this bike and having future problems with the Alfine 8 as I have done on the Day One and (2) if I'm going to spend a lot of money on a new bike I'd quite like it to come with forks that have a hole on the front of the forks at the top of the fork crown.

As a result I've been looking at either of the Fairlight Secan or Strael as a treat to myself for my 40th birthday:-

https://fairlightcycles.com

But if I buy one I want to know that it'll be a bike that will last me and I won't have issues getting components in say 5-15 years time.

Thanks again,

John

[mikeymo]

I asked a similar question:

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=136644&hilit=make+9+x+3+last+forever

You will receive many answers in the form - "I've got an XX years old bike running Y speed and can still get spares, you don't need to worry".

But this is a cycling forum, on which a great number of the contributors have clearly owned, assembled and maintained a great many bikes. And are prepared to spend time sourcing replacement parts. And considerable time tinkering. But if one is an ordinary cyclist who wants to keep a bike running just as it is, and replace components when they need to, it might not be that simple.

The answers to your multipart question are "sort of" and "probably".

Some parts seem to be available, new, long after they have ceased to be "current". Odd sized tyres for instance. Others not so much, particularly parts of the drive train.

You probably need to define "the long run". Unless you're thinking of passing this on as a still-maintainable family heirloom, then I suppose the long run is your expected cycling life.

My bike is made up with current Shimano. I read a little about Campagnolo's infinite repairability. Then found that it isn't true anymore. So considered sourcing "old" (pre 2006) Campagnolo, to buy something that is repairable. But I would then end up in the silly situation of trying to buy used components, in the hope that if they broke, I would still be able to buy spare parts and repair. By the way, some NOS ("New Old Stock") Campagnolo stuff does come up, at very high prices.

The paradox of this is that we only learn that component X is very long lasting whereas component Y isn't, if they do, or don't, stop working after Z years of life. So hundreds of cyclists saying - "Oh, the Bloggs 3401 shifters are fantastic, I've had mine for 20 years, quick squirt of lube every so often and they are still as smooth as the day I fitted them", and cycle mechanics saying - "Bloggs 3401 shifters? We hardly ever get any in the shop, and even then it's an easy job to replace the easily sourced bluttering pin". By which point the Bloggs 3401 shifters aren't available any more. Of course some mechanics, and consumers, might be able to look at something and say - "it would be better if that were a bearing, made out of metal, not plastic" (the thrust washers on BB7 brakes, for instance cf the Paul Klampers).

Spending money in order to get high quality and infinite repairability doesn't seem to be possible. I've come to the conclusion that if I want to have years of trouble free cycling, on the same bike, and replace things easily the best thing is probably to build the bike up with reasonable quality components, and then just buy exact duplicates of those things that will/might break.

[simonineaston]

and definitely some good food for thought here.

You coud summarise the dilema thus: buy the bike with the SA (I use the example here as a metaphore...), stick with it all your life, fix it if it breaks, and as you grow up, get a job, save money, if you ever choose to move on to something different - say, a Rohloff - pass the SA onto someone else. This, of course, is summarised by the well-known "green" mantra "Reduce, Re-use, Recycle".
Alternatively, you could choose to go through a succession of bikes, buying new frames, new components, new technology, as the whim dictates, enjoying (hopefully!) every single minute of each & every change.
Thus far, in the history of man (and women, of couse:-)) and technology, this constant improvement, constant change must have seemed like a good idea. From a certain view point, it must have looked as if we were on a huge, rising curve, everything always getting better, safer, faster, finer... however, now it is increasingly obvious that the addiction to the novel - a perfectly reasonable addiction, as it's just so much fun! - is a fatal one. We are about to the pay the price for using up so many resources. In a strange sort of way, it's one heck of a privelage to be there at the end! Me - I'm almost certainly going to die before the poop hits the fan (phew!) but younger folk may actually get a ring-side seat, to see what The End looks like. All of a sudden, that heavy, boring, ideosyncratic, only-got-four-ratios, SA hub is starting to look like a bloody good option!

[pwa]

You can make the frame and, to a certain extent the forks last a long time. But most of the rest of the bike will wear down over time and as things wear out you can replace with more up-to-date bits. But if the frame and forks are able to easily accept what is in the shops when the time comes, in ten years or whatever, you won't have a problem. So in a way the key to future proofing lies in the frameset.

Regarding gears, I have a Rohloff on a now disused tandem and while it is reliable and low maintenance (none of the slipping issues of other internal gear hubs) it is dull as dishwater to use. I'd not stick one on a solo bike. Give me sprockets and a mech any day and I'll deal with the maintenance as the price of having a nice ride.

And don't forget that ten or fifteen years down the line you might just want to sit up a bit more, so allow for that.