what frame is this?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Archieboy
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 May 2020, 4:24pm

what frame is this?

Postby Archieboy » 24 May 2020, 4:27pm

has anyone got any idea who or what this frame is?
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Brucey
Posts: 39436
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Brucey » 24 May 2020, 4:52pm

the rear brake cable routing is to allow a nicer run to a centre-pull brake (eg mafac) provided you are happy to drill the seat pin and not move it again. I don't remember who did frames like this, someone might know or then again it might have been a later modification.

The BB shell looks like a Nervex one, a bit like this

Image

so the long number is the angle information on the BB shell, and the three digit number is the frame number, with a (presumably later) hole drilled through it.

Whoever made that frame it is clearly not a dirt-cheap one judging from the seat lug ears. Head tube, dropouts, braze-ons etc may give more clues, but it would be difficult to see the most beautiful frame ever beneath those ghastly scuds of thick paint.

Occasionally you will find the original head badge rivet holes in the head tube, or even an original head transfer beneath the paint. The blue paint looks like household gloss in which case it may come off with a heat gun leaving what is behind it largely intact, which may give you a chance of finding transfers. The head badge rivet hole spacing can sometimes narrow the range of possible makers if not identify a maker quite accurately.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 24 May 2020, 5:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cyril Haearn
Posts: 13545
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 24 May 2020, 4:54pm

More pictures please, general view, lugs, dropouts
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Ugly
Posts: 418
Joined: 14 Jul 2009, 8:34am

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Ugly » 24 May 2020, 5:36pm

Back in the 70s a pal of mine had a Grandini frame, built by Youngs of Lewisham, with similar routing for the rear centre pull brake. It wasn't new then in fact it was his fixed wheel winter hack.

Archieboy
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 May 2020, 4:24pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Archieboy » 24 May 2020, 5:40pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:More pictures please, general view, lugs, dropouts
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Brucey
Posts: 39436
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Brucey » 24 May 2020, 6:01pm

Ugly wrote:Back in the 70s a pal of mine had a Grandini frame, built by Youngs of Lewisham, with similar routing for the rear centre pull brake. It wasn't new then in fact it was his fixed wheel winter hack.


nice write-up on those here;

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/youngs-builders.html

but unfortunately no pictures of the same cable routing

more here about 'Bill' Philbrook

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/philbrook-clarke-builders.html

the rear dropouts on the mystery frame look like they might be one-offs from the same hand?

cheers
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PT1029
Posts: 885
Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby PT1029 » 25 May 2020, 7:09am

I recall Cycletouring had a review of a bike with the rear brake cable going through the seat tube/seat post. The name Shotton comes to mind, but I might be wrong on this.
A neat design in some respects, but a pain to move your saddle 2 or 3mm though!

wirral_cyclist
Posts: 775
Joined: 17 May 2010, 9:25pm
Location: Wirral Merseyside

Re: what frame is this?

Postby wirral_cyclist » 25 May 2020, 2:37pm

PT1029 wrote:I recall Cycletouring had a review of a bike with the rear brake cable going through the seat tube/seat post. The name Shotton comes to mind, but I might be wrong on this.
A neat design in some respects, but a pain to move your saddle 2 or 3mm though!


I'd doubt a slightly longer 'slot' of a couple of mm would make much odds strength wise?

tatanab
Posts: 4083
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby tatanab » 25 May 2020, 5:10pm

PT1029 wrote:I recall Cycletouring had a review of a bike with the rear brake cable going through the seat tube/seat post. The name Shotton comes to mind, but I might be wrong on this.
A neat design in some respects, but a pain to move your saddle 2 or 3mm though!
I doubt it was Dan Shotton. He built for only a few years in the early 80s from a very small workshop in Bristol. He was quite innovative with a willingness to try almost anything. Since it was such a small operation with a small turnover I doubt one appeared in Cycletouring. Obviously I was a fan of his work.

Archieboy
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 May 2020, 4:24pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Archieboy » 1 Jun 2020, 7:55pm

been given this by the previous owner he says it was in the frame when he got it
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Brucey
Posts: 39436
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Brucey » 1 Jun 2020, 8:09pm

that is what you would expect to find if the brake cable routing is to work as intended.

cheers
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Archieboy
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 May 2020, 4:24pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Archieboy » 6 Jun 2020, 11:58pm

scrapping some paint off uncovered lots of layers of paint but what seems like a green and white bike
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iandusud
Posts: 322
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby iandusud » 7 Jun 2020, 1:09pm

Something not right with the headset.

Archieboy
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 May 2020, 4:24pm

Re: what frame is this?

Postby Archieboy » 7 Jun 2020, 11:55pm

iandusud wrote:Something not right with the headset.

in what way?