Distance and Total Ascent

[peetee]

Yep me too. I stayed In a place near Mam Tor in The Peaks and within two minutes of leaving the door I was walking down a steep path into Edale. I was Mr Cranky for about half an hour after that.

[VinceLedge]

Mustn't forget how to include a factor for head/tail wind as well!

[markjohnobrien]

I have just done 35 miles around Helston and Falmouth area .........

On my parish churches quest, I did a ride in the Falmouth area. Very hard work indeed.

We drove down there and Mrs Mick F and the dog walked along the coast path. I did ten parish churches that day.
28miles and 3,300ft of ascent = 117ft per mile.$matches[2]Screen Shot 2020-06-01 at 08.59.21.png

Naismith's Rule has merit but doesn't that just tell you the time it'll take you, rather than the energy expenditure?
Also, it adds time for climbs, but not descents. I can walk faster up hills than down them coz it hurts my legs and knees coming down. Always has done
, even as a young man.

I agree with the sentiment re Falmouth area by both posters: I’ve been holiday to Falmouth three times, took the bike, and the rides were very hard with constant up and down. After three hours, my hands were killing on the brakes.

[Nessie23]

The climb up to the pass summit was far easier than all the rest of the ride along the coast back to Lochcarron. Knowing what I know now about how tired I was, was that I should have just turned back and gone over the top again!

There's more to this than total ascent then.

Is it possible the ‘Bealach’ took more out of your legs than you realised?
It is a spectacular climb (if the weather is good). Also really scenic on the approach to Shieldaig along the coast road.
I have cycled all over the North West coast of Scotland and the Hebrides and have always wondered how it compares to cycling in Devon & Cornwall. Everyone says the hills in D&C are the most challenging on a LEJOG and the route profiles bear this out. However, the East coast of Scotland is very different to the North West. How does cycling in D&C compare to the NW coast of Scotland?

[Mick F]

From my experience, Devon and Cornwall are harder.
Not because of the heights of the hills, because they can't compare to NW Scotland in that regard, but the frequency of the hills.
Constant ups and downs, with no let-up.

I've come down the A9 towards Pitlochry a few times .......... this is by illustration .............. it's 20miles of freewheeling.
The Bealach is one long climb, and then one long descent. The ride away from Applecross heading north, was a constant battle with hills much akin to down here I suppose, and although I've cycled quite a bit of Scotland, that route was unusual perhaps ........ but I'm no expert.

To put my ride over the Bealach into perspective, it was part of my Grand Tour.
http://my-grand-tour.blogspot.com
I'd taken the train to Edinburgh and made my way to Lochcarron via Pitlochry and Inverness. By the time I'd made it to Lochcarron, I'd cycled maybe 350miles towing a fully-loaded trailer. I was fit and strong and ready for anything.

The ride up the Bealach, I did without luggage as I'd left it at the B+B in Lochcarron. I took it slowly, stopping quite a few time to take in the views. Going down the other side was difficult due to cars getting in the way! I had to stop a few times to let them get further away so I could run downhill for stretches rather than braking constantly.

Had lunch at the Applecross Inn, then made my way round the coast back to Loccharron.
I still maintain that one big hill is easier than lots and lots of small hills, and it would have been easier - and quicker too - to have gone back over the top.

[Cyril Haearn]

What is the total ascent on the undulating ride back?

[Pebble]

Terrain varies greatly within the same region, if I go east into Berickshire typical rides will be 30 mile per 1000' ascent, south into North Northumberlan 20 miles per 1,000', Hawick Jedburgh area 12 miles per 1,000'

So far this year I have averaged about 20 miles for every 1,000 foot of ascent. I find rides that are below 10 miles/ 1000' are just too much and not that enjoyable.

[Mick F]

What is the total ascent on the undulating ride back?

Good question.
I was using a Garmin Edge 305 back then, and have the gpx of it all recorded in Ascent (my computer program).
I should be able to extract the ride back vs the ride there.

Having a cuppa, and I'll get onto it shortly.

[Mick F]

Complete ride.
55.05miles
5933ft of ascent
107.8ft per mile

Lochcarron to Applecross Inn.
17.53miles
2590ft of ascent
147.7ft per mile

Applecross Inn to Lochcarron via the coast.
37.51miles
3343ft of ascent
89.1ft per mile ................. but far more difficult.

[Mick F]

Profiles.

[Cyril Haearn]

So the big climb has easy gradients and the little climbs have harder gradients. Very confusing

I should like to go there and do the big climb up, as long as I do not have to cycle back down, terrified of that

[KTHSullivan]

Lucky to get three thousand feet in on the Lincolnshire alps on an all day ride. However you could probably run up a spread sheet, (mass x climb) / (distance x time) to provide a coefficient (dimensionless number) and decide where you want the cells to change colour dependent upon the ouch factor. Further if one needed to be more scientific incorporate conversion factors to provide Newtons, seconds, metres and call the output "Ouch sub F".

K

[Chris Jeggo]

..... (mass x climb) / (distance x time) to provide a coefficient (dimensionless number) .....

ML / LT = M / T ???

[mattheus]

..... (mass x climb) / (distance x time) to provide a coefficient (dimensionless number) .....

ML / LT = M / T ???

Climb/distance is gradient - an existing dimensionless number that most people understand.
Not sure what KTH is trying to do with the other quantities in there.

(Can we avoid using upper case for those units?? Just me? ...)

[Mick F]

Is it possible to put it all more simply?

If you go on a ride, and record distance and total ascent, you divide the total ascent by the distance, to get an ascent per distance figure. Feet per mile or metres per kilometre etc.

I've already suggested that the ascent per distance isn't the whole story.
Could a ride be described using a frequency of climbs per distance?

Say a ride has 100ft per mile. Say you've done 25miles and therefore climbed a total 2,500ft.
One ride has one single climb of 2,500ft, and the other ride has ten climbs of 250ft each.

Which is easier?
It depends on the steepness and the frequency.

That 25mile ride could have a gentle 2,500ft hill lasting over 20miles, and a sudden steep descent. Escarpment?
Or it could have steep ups and shallow downs constantly along in a series of escarpments steep side first, and at no time could you relax.