Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

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smuggers
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Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby smuggers » 23 Jul 2020, 8:44pm

Hello All..

Just thought I would ask for some advice about rear mech options for Dura Ace 9 speed bar end shifters. I run the same shifters on another bike with a Deore mech which shifts well. I have just built up a Surly Midnight Special & the M772 XT mech I have is shot at & I need a replacement. I built up the Surly with spare parts I had & I'm running a triple XT chainset. I do tend to ride quite a bit of roughstuff & chain slap is a problem & I was thinking about getting a 10spd XT clutch mech & running it in friction mode due to the pull ratio being different with 10spd mechs? Do others here run their set ups in friction mode & find they soon got the hang of it? I had a 10spd XT clutch mech on my Mtb & found it great for having no chain slap.. Also the M772's are becoming harder to come by, especially in good nick..

Regards...Smuggers
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. --H.G. Wells

irc
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby irc » 23 Jul 2020, 9:46pm


rotavator
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby rotavator » 23 Jul 2020, 9:51pm

Do others here run their set ups in friction mode & find they soon got the hang of it?


I soon got used to using the DA 9 sp friction shifter with M772 RD. If a shift is not quite perfect and you hear the chain rubbing a sprocket you simply nudge the lever slightly. Benefits include never having adjust the indexing because there isn't any to go wrong and being able to shift as many gears as I want, up or down, at once, which I find handy on routes with lots of short, sharp hills.

djnotts
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby djnotts » 23 Jul 2020, 10:15pm

Running 9 speed on friction for my old XT 3 x 7, first as bar cons now on JTek mounts on flat bars. Excellent shifting, especially for front mech. So easy to get alignment perfect.

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geomannie
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby geomannie » 23 Jul 2020, 10:17pm

rotavator wrote:
Do others here run their set ups in friction mode & find they soon got the hang of it?


I soon got used to using the DA 9 sp friction shifter with M772 RD. If a shift is not quite perfect and you hear the chain rubbing a sprocket you simply nudge the lever slightly. Benefits include never having adjust the indexing because there isn't any to go wrong and being able to shift as many gears as I want, up or down, at once, which I find handy on routes with lots of short, sharp hills.


This is pretty much what I run on most of my bikes. Friction shifting becomes second nature and the ability to shift multiple gears is great. Also, if you want to change cassette it's no problem. Last night I swapped a 9 speed 11-30 for a 10 speed 11-34. No issues what so ever. Try that on an indexed gear system......
geomannie

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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby Brucey » 23 Jul 2020, 10:20pm

RD-M772 was in stock at several places until very recently. I don't know whether they have finally discontinued it or whether it being out of stock is Covid related.

Anyway if you want to keep your indexing and use a Deore 10s MTB mech (with 9s shifters and 9s cassette), you can do so if you use shiftmate #6.

It may also be possible to adjust the cable mounting on the RD so that the shift ratio is correct for 9s, in which case no shiftmate required.

I grew up with friction shifting and I don't mind it at all, but indexing is easier.

cheers
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby The utility cyclist » 23 Jul 2020, 10:35pm

Why do you need an MTB rear mech in the first instance, what's wrong with a road RD?
Current commute bike has been used for all sorts including off road and riding over boulders, broken up trails, sandy dunes, woods etc, it runs a Tiagra 4400, 48-36-26 with 12-28 but can easily go to a 32T sprocket and a 24T ring.

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smuggers
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby smuggers » 25 Jul 2020, 10:33pm

Brucey wrote:RD-M772 was in stock at several places until very recently. I don't know whether they have finally discontinued it or whether it being out of stock is Covid related.

Anyway if you want to keep your indexing and use a Deore 10s MTB mech (with 9s shifters and 9s cassette), you can do so if you use shiftmate #6.

It may also be possible to adjust the cable mounting on the RD so that the shift ratio is correct for 9s, in which case no shiftmate required.

I grew up with friction shifting and I don't mind it at all, but indexing is easier.

cheers



Thanks for all the replies guys.. Brucey, I'm seriously thinking about that shiftmate 6 & 10 speed MTB RD with a clutch. Thanks for this info, I wasn't aware of shiftmate.. :)
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. --H.G. Wells

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smuggers
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby smuggers » 25 Jul 2020, 10:37pm

The utility cyclist wrote:Why do you need an MTB rear mech in the first instance, what's wrong with a road RD?
Current commute bike has been used for all sorts including off road and riding over boulders, broken up trails, sandy dunes, woods etc, it runs a Tiagra 4400, 48-36-26 with 12-28 but can easily go to a 32T sprocket and a 24T ring.


I just want a rear mech with a clutch.. Do they do clutch RD's? I want to limit chain slap because I'm running a triple XT chainset...Think my cassette is a 11-36 or 34.
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. --H.G. Wells

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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby Brucey » 25 Jul 2020, 10:57pm

RD-4700, all shimano 'road' 11s mechs and GRX series mechs all have the same shift ratio. Of these only GRX mechs have the clutch option. Other 9s/10s shimano road mechs (with the correct shift ratio) don't have the clutch option.

GRX again doesn't have a shift ratio that matches 9s shifters, so a different shiftmate would be required; not sure which one, if any, is likely to work.

I think that the cable pull would have to be increased by about (2.9/2.5) i.e. about x 1.16. This is very close to shiftmate #9, but for some reason this combination doesn't appear in their chart, so maybe it is one that doesn't work eg for reasons of non-linearity.

cheers
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iandusud
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby iandusud » 26 Jul 2020, 9:38am

rotavator wrote:
Do others here run their set ups in friction mode & find they soon got the hang of it?


I soon got used to using the DA 9 sp friction shifter with M772 RD. If a shift is not quite perfect and you hear the chain rubbing a sprocket you simply nudge the lever slightly. Benefits include never having adjust the indexing because there isn't any to go wrong and being able to shift as many gears as I want, up or down, at once, which I find handy on routes with lots of short, sharp hills.


I have no issues with friction shifters although I do think that indexing is bonus, but I don't see any benefit with friction bar ends as opposed to indexed with regard to the number of shifts that can be made in one go. In fact IMO it is one of the benefits of bar end shifters, indexed or friction.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby The utility cyclist » 26 Jul 2020, 9:50am

smuggers wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Why do you need an MTB rear mech in the first instance, what's wrong with a road RD?
Current commute bike has been used for all sorts including off road and riding over boulders, broken up trails, sandy dunes, woods etc, it runs a Tiagra 4400, 48-36-26 with 12-28 but can easily go to a 32T sprocket and a 24T ring.


I just want a rear mech with a clutch.. Do they do clutch RD's? I want to limit chain slap because I'm running a triple XT chainset...Think my cassette is a 11-36 or 34.

Ok, just curious as to why needing one, Brucey answered above re the clutch not being present on any matching road RDs, but having been off road with a road RD and indeed with an older style MTB rear mech on my downhill bike I've never experienced chain slap that was problematic and found the need for a 'clutch' variant, On bikes that I want to protect paintwork I simply put a removable sleeve or shiny stainless steel protector on the chainstay.

And in any case not sure if the road RD you'd need would manage a 34T sprocket and unlikely a 36T, I use a 32T with a short cage rear, however never tried past that with any derailleur as I just go smaller chainring to get the gearing - just bought a 23T sprocket for the road chainset and use a 22T inner on the MTB.

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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2020, 11:45am

Smuggers
FWIW I ride a lot off road with some pretty rough downhill sections included,where chainslap is most likely to happen due to freewheeling ans as a result slack chain,all on unsuspended bikes(Longitude and Vagabond)and I don't pussyfoot on descents.
The Longitude has 3x10sp with a Deore clutch rear mech on 29er x 2.25 or 2.4inch tyres,the Vagabond is 3x9sp Deore M591 rear mech with no clutch,on 29er x 2inch tyres,both bikes have neoprene velco fastened chainstay protectors(ebay cheap).
Neither bike has ever suffered paint chips from chain slap or unshipped a chain on rough terrain.
Whilst I like the idea of a clutch mech,the no clutch bike doesn't suffer as a result,unless you have other reasons,personally it wouldn't bother me.
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Re: Dura Ace 9 Speed Bar End Shifters & rear mech options?

Postby slowster » 26 Jul 2020, 12:52pm

With 3 x 9 I was usually able to prevent chain slap going downhill by ensuring that I was in the large ring. Typically you can achieve the same gear ratio provided by middle ring/small sprocket by instead using large ring/bigger sprocket, but the chain tension is a lot more with the latter.